Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Foreign welcome back to the Skullcast. Asher Whitmer here with my brother Christopher Whitmer. We are Vikings fans and so today we are. I don't know, I mean we're recording a couple days after the, the Monday Night football game where J.J. mcCarthy has his first game but Woofta. What a, what a first game. What are, how are you feeling by now, Christopher, as we basically a day and a half later.
[00:00:41] Speaker B: Yeah, I feel, I feel pretty happy obviously that the first three quarters were pretty miserable but also filled with some angst of like I know this is better and then the, the fourth quarter, I know this team is better than fourth quarter came around and felt it felt like I probably was more excited afterwards and I've just been just riding that, that fourth quarter ever since.
[00:01:09] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. I so my, my cousin, our cousin was visiting for a few days and Monday we were up in the mountains and so coming back I was kind of listening to the game the first, I think I got most of the first half and then the third quarter we were coming through the worst of the mountains where the service was in and out and got home just in time for the. When they started to come back and I had to run her to the airport at 2 the next morning and so by the time the game was done I was like floored. I couldn't sleep.
Thankfully there was enough, there was enough content out about the game by the time I, I needed drive her to the airport that when I was coming back home, it's a two hour drive up to Denver. When I was coming back home I was able to listen to a lot of that and kind of rehash I sent you some messages, keep me awake even though I was really tired. But yeah it was, it was so the first maybe 10 minutes of the game maybe it wasn't quite that much. I was, we, we hadn't quite got on the road so I was watching some of that and you know obviously the, the first, the, the Vikings get the ball first and I don't think they've moved it a yard really. It was like this three, three attempts and they were done. And something I want to just say early on, like I, I'm. I think one of the things that I'm kind of mixed about and we'll get, we'll get to the comeback and everything but watching, watching on the onset like I, I hope or I wonder if this game isn't going to be somewhat of a foreshadow of like the transition that is happening. Obviously this is one game We. We got to give. I'm not even sure I'm comfortable saying with how bad it was at the beginning. I'm not sure I'm comfortable saying, like, J.J. mcCarthy is the QB of the Vikings franchise, but he certainly showed why, why Harbaugh believed in him, why the Vikings passed. Like, it's. It's kind of amusing.
Some of the analysts since then are like, I think I understand now why the Vikings passed on Darnold. It's like, yeah, like, our confidence has always been in the coaching staff. Like, they turn Darnold around, right? They're not going to pick a guy out. That's. That's bad. That just collapses. Darnold wasn't doing what McCarthy did. Like, we saw Darnold fall apart. Darnold was great. He had a tremendous year, but he tended to fall apart when things. When the moment got too big, when. When things were not working well. So McCarthy comes back. I'm getting ahead of myself a little bit. What I wanted to say was, like, the defense seems soft. That wasn't your typical Flores defense. So I wasn't. I wasn't overly impressed. Yes, Caleb Williams came down and sliced it up and, and scored for the first time in the Caleb Williams era. They got an opening drive, touchdown. And so on one hand, it's like, wait, wow, like, Williams is looking good. But on the other hand, they didn't. They didn't put pressure on Williams like I expected them to, like they did last year, and flustered him. So I was kind of. There was part of me watching that was like, okay, well, I hope you know, I know what Flores does. Hopefully he's going to get after him here and keep this game close. On the other hand, there was this. This sense of, like, I wasn't.
The Bears held Minnesota and McCarthy to 2, 3 and outs to open the game. But I wasn't, like, overly impressed by the Bears defense. Like, I didn't think, wow. More I was concerned. Like, wait, I thought we fixed the interior of the O line. Like, it. It felt like we had the same mistakes. Like, all of a sudden there. The O line isn't good. We have a QB not processing well. And, And. And over the course of the game, so it felt like we just kind of brought what we had against the Lions and the Rams brought it into the 2025 season. And then over the course of the game, we see. I would say not only did we see JJ McCarthy grow up, because there was. He was. Clearly, things were running slow and in the moment, I wasn't sure. Like is he just not reading this well or whatever. There's been some, some breakdowns. Even Dan Orlovsky I think did one on this. Was that who I was listening to?
Or maybe it was like the O line, the O line committee with Phil Mackey and Alex Boone and Jeremiah.
Yeah, I forget who was, I was listening to. But breaking down the, the fact that McCarthy's process was good. Like even from the very beginning, his processing of the plays is just, it was slow, the game was faster and, and, and the O line was giving up pressure. So there's that. We see McCarthy grow up, we see the O line start getting aggressive. We see Flores kick back in his, his high pressure defense. I think we also saw o' Connell gains.
I don't know what it was like. Was it confidence in trusting McCarthy?
Was it tightening up the, the, the calling of the plays and just giving him simple stuff? Because it seemed like they, they had several delay of games or needed to use a timeout because they were about to delay a game. Like just these different things. And by the end of the fourth quarter we have a phenomenal looking QB. Like if McCarthy looks like that the majority of the time watch out for the Vikings. If o' Connell coaches like he did in the second half, the majority of the time like that's an improved, an improved coaching on several points. One is, and I'm, I'm rambling so I'll give you a pause to give feedback here too because I've, I've, I've got a ton of, of pent up stuff, get it off your chest.
But like on one hand when McCarthy's not doing well, not reading well, like it could be easy to just hand off the ball. On the other hand, they couldn't get the run game going. And knowing ko, it could have been easy for KO to abandon the run game, but that's actually what got them going instead. He was able to decipher in, in live time. Obviously they may have gone over this in the halftime cause most of this came out in the second half. But in the game they were able to decipher, you know what, Mason's getting more ground on the run like with the run. So let's use Mason more. They used Mason more. They get the run game going. They didn't abandon Jones. Like Jones had a critical touchdown in this whole comeback. But then it also seemed like he started trusting, letting and I, I don't know what the plays were called in the first couple quarters where McCarthy's not getting it off. They. He had, he had. I think all his sacks were in the first half, so maybe, maybe McCarthy could have been hunting down for chunk plays a little bit more and we just didn't see the result of it. But it seemed like McCarthy Connell kind of relaxed at everything off the dust and for, for Everybody that had McCarthy a bust and was sitting him and even had O' Connell on the ropes. Like I had that thought run. Like really like why, why is KO not able to have his QB better prepared for a game like this? This is the guy that he picked. But at the same time, even if that game had ended in a loss, this is McCarthy's first game. Like at the end of the day it really looks like he worked out his nerves and now he's more relaxed. Anyways, that's kind of the initial stuff, at least that, that I'm kind of processing as I reflect on the game.
[00:08:53] Speaker B: A couple, couple thoughts that I had. One was Kevin o'. Connell. I never, I never had that thought.
[00:09:00] Speaker A: I.
[00:09:00] Speaker B: You.
[00:09:01] Speaker A: You.
[00:09:01] Speaker B: I think it'll, it'll take, it'll take a very long time for me to, to, to Very seriously. There might be like mid game I'm just like, like, like I might start thinking like is it really never going to work? Um, and I might be like oh, maybe Kevin o', Connell, but like I, I believe. I'm not saying you don't believe, but I'm just like I'm, I'm sold out. I'm smitten. Um.
[00:09:25] Speaker A: Yeah, well, I think with Kevin, I think what played into that for me, I think what played into that is I really had this sense that, that McCarthy was going to ball out like what he did in the fourth quarter. I thought he was going to come in and maybe do that the whole way.
[00:09:40] Speaker B: That was.
[00:09:41] Speaker A: And then he did. That was my. So that was probably. Yeah, I, that was probably just presumptuous or, or eager anticipation on my part.
[00:09:48] Speaker B: But so a couple of things I think about with, with that particularly is Kevin o' Connell passes like he passes the play calling duties for preseason off to his coaches. So like West Phillips.
[00:10:06] Speaker A: Phillips.
[00:10:06] Speaker B: I mean obviously.
Yeah.
I'm. I'm even thinking did he have McCowan do some. I know like on defense they do it too. And like Flores Floors had. Flores had.
Mattelis.
[00:10:21] Speaker A: Mattelis player.
[00:10:23] Speaker B: Yeah. Calling some plays like on the field.
Um, and so there's. There was a part of me just as you were talking that, that wondered and I, I have no idea. Like I'm not, I'm not a football person. Um, and I don't, I, I don't know any football people. So this, this might not be a thing, but like, it made me wonder if in the same way that like some teams that don't emphasize the preseason had kinks to work, always have kinks to work out in the first couple of weeks, if o' Connell has some of those, was having some of those Monday night.
[00:11:00] Speaker A: Just as a play caller.
[00:11:02] Speaker B: Just as a play caller, just like, okay, because he's, I mean, because he's also thinking new quarterback, he's probably also got similar pressures as McCarthy has.
And, and on top of that, also, like, okay, getting in the rhythm of like, coaching. Maybe that's disrespectful to like a professional coach to think that they're not prepared for play calling.
[00:11:25] Speaker A: But, but if you think about it, Troy Aikman talked about the pressure McCarthy's under, and I, I tend to agree. I think McCarthy's probably has, has some of the highest pressure of any QB this year just because of the, the system he's stepping into, but so does OConnell. Like, OConnell's probably got some of the highest pressure of any coach.
Not, not just because he's got a really good roster to work with. They could go deep and he chose to pass on. But he's, he's publicly on record as saying organizations fail QBs before QBs fail organizations.
[00:12:01] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:12:01] Speaker A: And so now he's got to come through as the leader, the primary leader, at least as it pertains to McCarthy of the organization. And yeah, I, I, I hadn't really thought about it in that way, but I think you might be right.
[00:12:12] Speaker B: Yeah. So there, there was a part of me that was also like, I, I felt that frustration of just like, why can't, like, why can't we be ready? But I just think, I think it was in some ways a perfect storm. I don't know why the defense would have been soft other than.
[00:12:29] Speaker A: You know.
[00:12:29] Speaker B: You, you, you live and you live and die by that floor is scheme. And so I, I think in some ways two, two thoughts in regard to this.
I think, I don't, I don't know how to verify this, but I'm pretty sure I heard someone say that Harrison Smith is usually the, the signal caller for the defense. And he was out, he's, he's been out for a while. And so again, they should have been ready. Oh, no, it's usually someone on the line, I guess. So it's probably more like, I thought it was Cashman oh, you might be right. Okay. That whole point is moot.
But yeah, I think it is cashmere.
[00:13:11] Speaker A: One thing, one thing I did hear about defense. Sorry, I was going to say one thing I did hear about the defense is that they, they were trying four man pressure like Flores is. Oh, typically what we're used to is they do five man, sometimes even six man pressure and they go all out blitz and they. With their re. Re revamped D line, they were trying four man pressure.
And so that, that explains like. And, and I actually, I'm fine with them testing that out. It's nice to know that they can tweak it up because if they can get four man pressure, I think that that allows them to then solve some of the weaknesses of the Flores scheme by having more personnel available in the secondary.
[00:13:54] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, no, I agree that that was actually kind of my thoughts. Second point was like, they're like, they did, they kind of did ramp it up towards the end of the game.
And, and I also think with somebody like Caleb Williams, and we'll talk about Caleb Williams later, but ramping that up actually like, like turning on the heat actually works really well because he, he gets flustered. And so it's like by rushing everybody on the line at the start, he may be able to like get through it, but the more he's just got people in his face, got people in his face, pots pockets are breaking down, he gets more flustered and flustered and he starts making bad decisions like stepping outside of the line, you know, totally missing open wide people. And again, we're going to talk about Caleb Williams later, but just in regards to the defense, there is a little bit like in the same way that you, we have historically lived or died by Kevin OConnell's like, commitment to his quarterbacks and allowing them to play, we also kind of live or die to Flores's crazy scheme because towards the end of the game he was, he was back to rushing like six, six people. And those pockets were just falling apart. And it was a beautiful thing.
[00:15:12] Speaker A: Yeah. And, and like you said, Williams was running for his life and just flustered, not making.
Cause even again, I can't. I've. I've listened to so many things. I can't remember who I was listening to, but somebody was pointing out how some of the, some of the tackles that Williams was breaking after he made did the hard part in scrambling. There were, there were guys wide open downfield, but he was just checking it down or getting his 8 yard run or whatever. And so that's that's the effect of the floor is pressure is you make the QB not not focus downfield, not hunt downfield.
[00:15:49] Speaker B: And yeah, and yeah, I'm trying not to dip into to too many later topics. But yeah, like with, with McCarthy kind of just going back to McCarthy and his, his issues at first it's, it's just like a couple of thoughts like like yes, it's the Bears. I don't want to overreact to the Bears because I've been saying all offseason the Bears are still the Bears and they're in there, they're not going to be good. And so I don't think it's some great feather in cap, but it's still an NFL team and like people talk about all the time and I believe them and I think it's true objectively like that the worst NFL team could still smoke the best college team and players talk about that, coaches talk about that, analysts talk about that all the time. And so there, there is like his last game was the national championship game.
Like he, he was saying like 600 days ago after the game I think someone asked him a question and he was like 609. Yeah, my last game was yes, 609 days days ago. That's almost a full two years.
And, and he's, he was gone through an injury and like just all of these things stacked up to like I get so frustrated by NFL fans who bail on quarterbacks so quickly because and I thought this long before o' Connell was my, was my team's head coach but like Peyton Manning through like a bajillion interceptions his rookie season like Peyton Manning was terrible his, his first year. You know the, even Aaron Rodgers wasn't like he was clearly a starter but he wasn't Aaron Rodgers and he sat for three years.
Patrick Mahomes sat for a year, entered an incredible scheme and I think he's a little bit of a, of an anomaly. Like I don't think that the Patrick Mahomes story or even the Tom Brady story is the standard.
It just takes a long time to develop players other positions too. Like Dallas Turner is playing well.
And so those three quarters it's like we came out with a win which is incredible. And that's why I come away even more hyped about the Vikings because it's like that goal grit and that determination, that's what you need. That's what creates the Ravens Bills just all timer is because those are two quarterbacks who have that and, and all of those fundamentals like learning the game. Like, you know, McCarthy probably won't ever, ever be like Josh Allen in the sense that he's like just even, even Lamar Jackson, like doing like the prototypes, of course quarterbacking right now.
But he will continue to improve all of those things. But I don't think you can.
The difference between McCarthy and, and Williams, I think right now is just like that mentality of, of I'm gonna stick at it, I'm gonna get up and do it again. I'm not gonna be flustered. I'm a robot.
And so I just, I'm just like, this is like the best case scenario where he got all of his nerves out. That makes complete sense.
[00:19:23] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:19:23] Speaker B: And like yes, some of that defense stuff and the play calling, it's like some of. I wouldn't be surprised if all of that was just kind of this collective like, like if McCarthy would have come in and just been like throwing dimes right out of the beginning, some of that might have tightened up a little bit quicker. I just think it was all, it was all just like a team.
[00:19:45] Speaker A: That.
[00:19:45] Speaker B: Had a brand new quarterback who hadn't played in 600 days, you know.
[00:19:50] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, I agree. I think there's, I mean there's several things at play here. One is it, it ought to be a given. And I, I don't really have anything to go off of. Why I sensed. I messaged you a few days before the game and was like, I have this feeling McCarthy's going to ball out.
And I think some of it was just. There's been such a concerted effort for people to write McCarthy off.
Puzzling to me.
Like why people aren't even doing that for Bo Nix. And Bo Nix was not a top 10 draft pick and he was terrible last week. Yeah. And not that impressive. Like he probably did put up some of the better stats of the rookie QBs last year, but it wasn't like terribly impressive. I mean I'm just now looking at Tom Brady when he came in for Drew Bledsoe. He did go 11 and 3, but his yards, his touch, his touchdown to interception ratio was 18 to 12.
Like that's kind of ugly. You wouldn't.
His yardage wasn't that impressive. He didn't get a, he didn't get a season with over 4,000 yards until his 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 fifth season in. He didn't have a season with more than 30 touchdowns until his seventh season in when he threw 50.
[00:21:06] Speaker B: Like that's crazy.
[00:21:08] Speaker A: Yeah. And, and he had double digit interceptions all, all of those years until, until he threw 50 touchdowns. Then he only had eight interceptions.
[00:21:16] Speaker B: But.
[00:21:17] Speaker A: And looking at Peyton Manning like now my. There we go. Peyton Manning threw more yards earlier than Brady did, but he had 28 interceptions his first year.
[00:21:29] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:21:30] Speaker A: Compared to 26 touchdowns. Even his fourth year in, he had 23 interceptions to 26 touchdowns and he had a losing record. That's his fourth year in. So the, the space to give these QBs time to grow up and, and become hall of Fame caliber players. That's.
We live in this such an era where we, we want the big flashy player, the guy that makes these incredible plays, incredible throws and stuff. And the reality is when you look at that fourth quarter, McCarthy. McCarthy had speed and accuracy to his arm. He had like good options, good decision making process. If you think of that, that read option where he fakes a handoff to Mason and then runs it in to, to be able to decipher that obviously at that point they were now ahead. So he's got the confidence back in that. But to be able to stay in it mentally and read the plays like learn on the fly how to read faster, how to be able to read what's happening, to be able to tell in that split second, oh, the, the defensive end leans his shoulder inside so I can now run to the outside and, and not just settle for the first down, which some people were saying he should have done that just to kill more.
[00:22:47] Speaker B: Yeah. Pain Manning.
[00:22:48] Speaker A: But I mean that was fun. Like, go, go do that. Go show people what you got.
[00:22:53] Speaker B: His team, his team loved it. Like, yeah, they hyped that route right after that.
[00:23:01] Speaker A: Looked a little awkward ducking in between the, the Hawkinson and the guy he's blocking.
But it works and it gets, gets the touchdown completed. The thing that stood out to me about McCarthy was it did look like he was nervous. It looked like he was. The game was faster, but he was poised the whole time. I don't, I don't know if you've watched Colin Coward at all. I was kind of just kicks and giggles seeing what he had to say.
[00:23:30] Speaker B: I can't stand, I can't stand his. I, I'll listen to him about some things, but his McCarthy takes are awful.
[00:23:36] Speaker A: Yeah, it's awful. He, he. His comp is BAKER Mayfield for McCarthy and I think it's his Baker Mayfield grasp to try to save, save his thing.
It's, it's so funny to me to listen to Coward and, and Nick Wright because Cowards highly invested in Darnold. Nick Wright is highly invested in Williams. So they're going to down. They're going to both downplay McCarthy because the Vikings passed on Darnold to keep McCarthy and McCarthy just way outplayed Williams. But the. The thing like I totally disagree with a comp to Baker Mayfield and. And Coward saying like Mayfield's highly emotional and he's getting. What I wanted to ask was did you watch the game? Like, McCarthy was not. McCarthy was poised the whole game long. It annoyed me at first. You just had two consecutive three and outs. You. You had a couple other drives that ended up in punts or, or duds. Even. Even if you did get a first down in the process, like show some urgency. Like get. Get a little. Like I was kind of annoyed at this and now at the end of the game I'm like, man, McCarthy is a dog. Like hold it.
[00:24:51] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:24:51] Speaker A: To. To stay in there mentally. Everything is falling apart. Nothing is working.
This is one of the most embarrassing starts of all the rookie QBs in the last number of years. Like even Sam Darnold had a pretty good rookie.
[00:25:06] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:25:06] Speaker A: Or NFL debut compared to what McCarthy's showing up here. But to hang in there, I.
I'll just add this on and then I'll turn it back to you.
I thought Darnold McCarthy was going to ball out, but as the game ended, I actually preferred the fact that like I'm glad we saw this. This is what our QB is. He can have a really rough start, especially in light of last year where we. Minnesota had a lot of great starts to games and then when they fell apart, they just fell apart and they couldn't pull themselves back in. And now we have a QB who can. Who stays in, who brings his team back. Anyways, I'll turn it back to you.
[00:25:49] Speaker B: To, to be fair to Darnold, there were a couple of games where he fell apart and then. And brought it. Brought it back.
[00:25:57] Speaker A: That's true. I guess that Seattle game was somewhat like that Seattle.
[00:26:01] Speaker B: That was the really impressive one. The less impressive one was the Jacksonville one where. Yeah, I don't think Jacksonville was ever ahead.
They maybe were ahead because they got one touchdown and then. And then Darnold just couldn't finish in the end. In the end zone. Couldn't. Couldn't finish a drive.
Um, but the, the thing, the thing you were talking about like that. The McCarthy having that dog in him is what Aaron Jones said to the Speakeasy podcast after the game, talking about when they were. They were still down. I think maybe they were making their comeback already. But McCarthy just comes in the huddle and it's like a third down and he's like, is there any place you'd rather be? And then he gave the play call and, and, you know, they left the huddle or whatever. But yeah, that's just, that's just, that's, you know, you were, you were making the point when we were talking about this. Like, that's a, That's a harbism or it sounds like a harbism. Like, who has it better than us? Nobody.
Just kind of that positive, like, you know, thing.
And, and that could go really, really poorly if you don't execute where it's like, is there any place you'd rather be? Interception? Like, yeah, I'd rather, you know, I'd.
[00:27:27] Speaker A: Rather you not be the QB right now.
[00:27:29] Speaker B: Yeah. Just from the point of the, the teammates. That could go really poorly.
[00:27:32] Speaker A: But yeah, yeah, yeah. And Troy Aikman was bringing that out on the broadcast. How we. You see, you see McCarthy dapping up his O line after throwing pick six and just how tough that can be because they're not looking at you too amazingly right now like you just threw a pick six.
And, and yet to have the. And I think afterward somebody asked him and he said, I was just telling him we gotta, we gotta believe. Gotta believe. And, and this is kind of how I felt about McCarthy. He's. He's really good with the mic and it feels more genuine like you have in contrast. And I don't want to bash the Bears too much, but I do think it, it ought to be a red flag when you have a GM who comes in and makes a statement like, we're going to take back the north and never give it back.
And then you have Brent, Ben Johnson, who's like, I'm going to have fun beating Green Bay twice a year or whatever. Like, those, those aren't like, I, I don't know if they think it's. It's like presenting confidence and all that, but that's almost like you have. You're trying to prove something with your words. Whereas McCarthy, it wasn't that. It was like, this guy believes something really deeply, but is it all just talk or is he going to be able to go out and perform? And now you have that, like, wow, he not only had that talk and that confidence and that boldness to dap up his O line, but then to go and perform and actually when they give him good clean pockets, to be able to use the pocket to, to trust his O line to, to stand in there and make big boy throws while getting hit that again. I was just this morning looking at that throw to Jefferson that kind of got things rolling on the first touchdown drive. He gets flattened right after releasing the ball to Jefferson down the, down the. On the sideline. So, yeah, I was just impressed and excited to see how McCarthy is able to follow through and not just, yeah, he's not just talk, he's not just this confident poser, but he actually has the ability to hang in there and stay in. And you alluded to it earlier, but just the, the.
At the end of the day, I mean, if you think about it before I say what I was going to say, if, if all we were given was the final score and the final stat line. McCarthy throws 143 yards. He rushes for. I forget how much was it. Did he get over 30 rushing yards?
Um, but he has a rushing touchdown. He has two touchdown passes, which by the way, not even Jaden Daniels, no rookie last year, had a touchdown pass in their opening game. Not a single touchdown. Threw one interception. Yeah, he threw, he threw an interception but led his team to a win. If, if all we had was the final outcome, I think we'd all say that's about what we expected. Like we expected McCarthy to be working out kinks. You know, I thought maybe he would get over 200, 250 passing yards. Just this sense that I had. But the reality is, if you asked me what was more likely, this is what I expected. I thought they would beat the Bears by three points. I thought I. This is one thing I, I think I got right, which with all the talk around that came out especially over the weekend, right before the game about how Ben Johnson has floor as his number. I was like, I would not be surprised for this game to turn out as.
Actually, at the end of the day, people were talking about koc's offensive mind than anything else. And that is kind of how it turned out. Like, again, just like we put. We can put undue expectations on young QBs. I think, you know, it was silly for people to have the Bears in the super bowl last year with a rookie qb. I think it's also silly for people to expect the Bears to be suddenly this juggernaut in the NFC north with a first time head coach. Minnesota did it in koc's first year. It came at a perfect storm because some of the other teams, the Lions weren't who they are yet.
The packers were kind of on the, on the decline of the Aaron Rodgers era and the Bears were bearing and at this. So on one hand, it's like that happened. They won 13 games. I don't think anybody should have expected that. They weren't that good of a team as we saw in the playoffs. They had a negative point differential that year. So in the, in the same way, I'm, I'm just. I don't see why people thought or think the Bears are going to be this. This great team. And so at like, at the end of the day, this is kind of what I expected.
[00:32:15] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:32:16] Speaker A: But what I see that stands, like the difference or the gap between McCarthy and Williams is McCarthy does really well playing within structure, and I think he does a pretty good job of reading defenses and reading the plays and knowing like, processing the plays. I don't think Williams can process plays very well, and he doesn't do a very good job of reading a defense. He's. He can scramble. He's incredibly athletic, and some of his throws on the runs are Mahomesian, like in nature. But he doesn't have. He doesn't have the IQ and maybe not even the work ethic that I see McCarthy having. McCarthy's putting in work. And so even if I. I'm still not entirely sure why people don't think McCarthy's that skilled. McCarthy looked very good in several things, but I also think he's going to get better just because of his work ethic and his.
What. What. We already see him doing well in processing and patience and staying in there mentally. But I guess a couple a question then some comments maybe to end out this episode. As we recap. We didn't think. We don't think the Bears are that much of a threat yet. And so is it. Are. Are we overreacting to the comeback? Should we be more concerned about the Vikings?
I. I just saw. While we had some technical issues and I was sitting here waiting for you to come back, I saw that. Yeah, Tom Brady's come out with his top 10 and he has the Lions on his number 10. Vikings aren't even on the. The top 10.
[00:33:52] Speaker B: Oh my gosh.
Packers are probably like top three or something.
[00:33:57] Speaker A: Yeah, they were third. It was Eagles, Bills, packers.
So. And. And we'll talk about some of them in the time to come. Even recapping, we have not recorded since the big Parsons trade and everything. And, and just to foreshadow some of our future episodes, why we're not that worried about Parsons coming in to the division, especially with the Packers. Um, but yeah, I guess. Are we. Are we overhyping this win with the Bears Is that we don't think the Bears are that good. So in some ways, it's fun to see the Vikings getting the attention they have because a lot of people think the Bears are good, and a lot of hype is on Ben Johnson. I don't think we saw anything that impressive by the Bears. And so are we kind of overhyping this win for the Vikings?
[00:34:45] Speaker B: The. Yes. Yes and no. We're. We're in. In some ways, like, the. The fact of the matter is that in the end, the Vikings, like, kind of like you were saying if you looked at the snapshot. In the end, the Vikings who were. Were more who we thought they were, and the Bears were who we thought they were. And people have. Some people have the Bears winning the division, and they had.
A lot of people. I don't know if I say most people, but a lot of people had the Vikings in dead last.
And I. I just think at some. At some point, like, I think I said this last or one of our last episodes, just like, wake me up.
[00:35:32] Speaker A: When.
[00:35:32] Speaker B: When they do it, like, it's like. It's kind of like the Cowboys, only the Bears are kind of like the Cowboys, only they're worse than the Cowboys.
[00:35:41] Speaker A: They. They haven't had the success of the Cowboys.
[00:35:44] Speaker B: The hefts.
[00:35:45] Speaker A: Somehow.
[00:35:45] Speaker B: The Cowboys have. Yeah, the Cowboys have barely had success. They've had a lot of good stats, but they haven't had any playoff success. The Bears are worse than that for the last 30 years.
And.
And it's a very similar systemic. It's from the ownership.
[00:36:03] Speaker A: In all fairness, the Bears haven't played in a Super bowl since the Cowboys have.
[00:36:07] Speaker B: And NFC champions, several NFC championship.
[00:36:10] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:36:11] Speaker B: Um, but.
But for the. Yeah. So maybe it's more like the last 10, 15 years. They. They have just consistently not been a good team, and they've not been a good system.
And I do want to say, like, I think Bears fans are actually more realistic than the national media. So I feel kind of bad for Bears fans because some of the hate we're. We're giving is because we're frustrated at what the national media has been saying.
[00:36:46] Speaker A: For the most Bears fans.
[00:36:48] Speaker B: Bears fans are like Vikings fans in the sense that they get super hyped. Like that first half was understandably justifying for them to get hyped about, and then they just get crushed.
[00:37:00] Speaker A: And Caleb Williams looked great when. When the plays were scripted for him like he did. He did look like an improved Caleb. Caleb Williams, the first Ben Johnson scripts, the first 15 plays, and then after that is when things started to fall apart and, and he wasn't sure what to do and so forth. Yeah.
[00:37:18] Speaker B: His hand isn't being held.
[00:37:19] Speaker A: Yeah.
So, yeah, I mean, I, I, I agree. I think first of all, this is McCarthy's first game, so the realistic expectation ought to have been he's got nerves to work out. And I think that's what we saw and we saw him settle in.
I would be concerned if we see even a quarter like that first quarter again, again because of what we saw against the Bears. Let's withhold judgment until the game is done. Like that's why there's 60 minutes of play and not 45 or even 50.
[00:37:53] Speaker B: Right.
[00:37:53] Speaker A: But I do think I chalk a lot of that up to it's the first game he's getting used to NFL pace of play and I think it ought to be impressive that he adjusted all in one game. And there are, there are some people recognizing that as well. The Bears do. Even though the Bears aren't that good, they do a good job of playing division rivals close. They last year they played the Lions, a juggernaut offense and they kept close to them.
There was at least one game if not both games were with the difference of a field goal. And so I, I think that's a perspective to keep in mind. This is a divisional game. It's on the road. That was great for the Vikings.
Yes. We would be concerned if we see a lot more play like that. I expect coming home against Atlanta, I expect McCarthy to be much more relaxed and the team to ball out a little bit more. I do feel bad. I was think I've been thinking about the Bears. Like, like you said, a lot of the fans are pretty realistic and they're actually pretty congenial to us Vikings fans. Like they're, they're, they're impressed by. I, I even see some fans. Yeah.
Yeah. Anyways, they like I've seen, I've seen some Bears fans like making these memes and, or YouTube shorts and stuff of like, of course the Bears failed to on the QB draft. Like they get the worst one of the pack and, and I do think that I think Williams and Ben Johnson eventually will be better. There's such a stark difference in the way Ben Johnson schemes and what Williams strengths are. I do think they'll be good for each other and they will get better as the season progresses. I don't think they're going to get above.500 or higher than fourth place in the division. And I think we see why like something drastic would have to happen. But I do think they will get better. At the same time, I think the Bears issues are systemic. And I look at you look at the Vikings. They're a classic example of a good healthy system and team culture from the ownership where they're able to rec recognize the toxicity that's going on with Zimmer and Spielman and whatever. And obviously they, they were invested in Kirk Cousins at that point. So they go, they get a coach that is offensive minded, that has a really good sense of how to build culture, how to develop people, how to develop players.
They nailed it in that. And I compare over to the hometown, you know, other sport in the Minnesota Twins with baseball and they're a classic example of a toxic, an organization that has won in the past, the, an ownership that has won, but over time they are several generations removed from the one that won. But what I hear, even from the grandpa who owned the team and in 91, 87 and 91, when they won the World Series, like, I think this has progressively just become a bad organization, even with the grandpa to the son to the grandson now who's kind of the primary spokesperson for the organization. And in many ways I see the Bears or the jets as a team like that where you could get some good personnel, but it still doesn't come together because the issues aren't solved with personnel. The issues aren't solved with, by just getting a new head coach or a new flashy quarterback.
And, and so I think as, as a, as a, as a Twins fan, I've stopped watching baseball. It's become disinteresting to me. I'm like, man, wake me up when they change ownership. And in some ways I think maybe I'm projecting on, but I think the Bears fans are probably somewhat in that place. I don't know how realistic it is that they would change ownership, but that's.
[00:41:49] Speaker B: Kind of be hard. They're like NFL royal.
[00:41:51] Speaker A: Frustrating. Yeah. The other thing, the other comment I wanted to, to leave on and I didn't want to give this much airtime at all, but there, there is somewhat of a tenor floating around about, oh, there were three horrible calls in this game that the Vikings win from. And all I want to say is last year, even in those two complete colossal collapses, there was horrible officiating that happened and nobody gives space for the Vikings as excuse because it wasn't the officiating that lost them the game. And the same is true now.
So yes, 100% there are bad calls. The Vikings benefited in this round but that's not why they won and that's not why Chicago lost.
I think I just want to leave it at that. Wake me up when your QB has face masks twice and it's not called.
Yeah.
[00:42:44] Speaker B: Anyways, it's, yeah, it's. I mean every team like the Eagles have gotten some really terrible calls against, against their team facing the Chiefs. And so like I live in a town where everyone thinks the Chiefs, the Chiefs are cheaters. And, and, and I think, I think we just. Number one, we don't have logical explanations for greatness.
And, and we resent greatness, particularly when greatness is at our detriment.
And so, and so when there are issues that come up that are like, like The Chiefs had 10 penalties against them in this previous game.
[00:43:28] Speaker A: There are. You're saying against the Chargers against the Chiefs.
[00:43:32] Speaker B: I think. Yeah.
[00:43:33] Speaker A: No, in the game against the Chargers. The Chiefs in the game against Chargers.
[00:43:37] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:43:37] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:43:38] Speaker B: So like it. You're never going to think about the games where the officiating goes your way or is fine, but you're going to remember the times when it goes bad. Every, every fan base has that. You talk, you talk to Chiefs players, Chiefs fans, they think that they are treated unfairly. The Eagles fans think that they're as pure as the driven sons is the driven son driven snow.
They never think that their team. They let me rant about Philly for a second because Philly is such a privileged sports town.
Philly thinks that they just have the worst in the world. They've gone to the super bowl twice and the World Series once and the like NLC see championship twice. Since I've lived here. I've lived here for five years.
They think that they have it so terribly. They have a better than New York City. Philly has a better than Boston does right now. They have a better. Not, maybe not better than LA Dodgers, but better than LA Football. Like there is no better sports town to live in than if you're a fan of the Philadelphia Eagles or Phillies.
[00:44:54] Speaker A: Yeah. Do you think that's part of that out. That's hot. We have some Phillies I love. We have a lot of Philly.
[00:45:01] Speaker B: I love Philly. We have a lot of Philadelphia fandom.
[00:45:04] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:45:04] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:45:05] Speaker A: But it's always amusing to me.
[00:45:08] Speaker B: I think there's a delay.
[00:45:09] Speaker A: Maybe we're talking over each other.
[00:45:13] Speaker B: Yeah. I just want to say really quickly that there is something special in this town about their love for the Eagles. And every year, like it's, it's the changing of seasons, so it's always Beautiful. But then there's also just this vibrancy of, like, all right, here we go.
[00:45:27] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:45:28] Speaker B: I can't stand their pessimism, though, because they have no reason to be pessimistic and they have no reason to be mad at the Chiefs. Like, anyways.
[00:45:37] Speaker A: And it's. They. They are a bit of a anomaly in the sense that I don't look at that organization and think, man, they're buttoned up, they're tight together. Like, they're a tight group of guys, and yet they still win. And I don't think that would happen. Like, that must be something about Philly culture that we don't. Because I don't think that would happen even in a place like LA or New York City, maybe. Like, you can't be that sloppy as a group and. And making comments that sure seem pointed and a coach who's seems like he's not even present half the time and. And still win. It's like, and. And we'll get into this in the future. In. In our next episode, we'll review more of the league. But, like, they looked pretty bad in that game against the Cowboys. I don't think the Cowboys are as good as the Cowboys. Came out better than I expected. The Eagles did not look like they just came off of a. Of a Super bowl championship. But I'm not. I'm going to withhold conclusions. I may have a couple hot takes to see if they hit because they looked bad through 10 weeks last year. Like, we would not have looked at them at week 10 as a super bowl championship team. And so something about Philly, like, they, they have the ability to be emotional and chaotic and everything, and they still win, even. Even across sports. Like, I see that with the Phillies some as well. Like, there's some underlying metrics in some of their hitters that historically they don't do well when it comes down to big games. And yet they. They look pretty good this year. And they have things that I. I wouldn't be surprised to see them in the World Series again. All that to say three years ago when they lost to the Chiefs, they had no business being in that super bowl because they had tons of calls go their way in the NFC championship against the 49ers. So I'm like, I work with a bunch of Eagles fans, and I just sit back and amused whenever I hear them going off about officiating because I'm like, guys, you got. You got to one of your recent Super Bowls because of very privileged officiating. And my point in bringing this up is not to say, oh, the Vikings didn't benefit. They were. They were bad calls point blank.
[00:47:46] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:47:47] Speaker A: My point is that's not why the Vikings won, and that's not why, yeah, the Bears lost. And if it is, then let's go back and revisit and say, hey, did Minnesota actually collapse as bad as the final score makes it look in those last two games? Because there were some. And I guess it's a little different. The Lions game, it was. It was a bunch of holding and so forth that wasn't called. So they're letting guys play the. The Stafford intentional grounding thing that, like, oh, yeah, technically there was a receiver in place. Like, it.
It's kind of this weird whatever, but there was also a face mask in that. In that game.
[00:48:27] Speaker B: And so there's just that one. Or week eight that there was a face mask.
[00:48:30] Speaker A: I think there was one in both times we played the Rams.
[00:48:33] Speaker B: Not. Oh, really?
[00:48:33] Speaker A: I should go back. And I don't.
[00:48:35] Speaker B: I don't remember. I remember week eight, but.
[00:48:37] Speaker A: Well, week eight was there, but Darnold had two in the regular season.
[00:48:41] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:48:42] Speaker A: And I was think. I was thinking. I was thinking there was another one against the Rams. I could be wrong, but they weren't called. So. And then there's. You know, there were. Like. The thing that was frustrating about the Lions game is the Lions were playing very physical and those things weren't getting called. And then Minnesota did get called on some holdings and PIs, and it just didn't feel like it was going both ways. All that to say, like you said, every team has that. Every team is going to face that. It's frustrating when it goes against us. It's nice when it goes for us. And I'm grateful because Minnesota capitalized every time it went. The Vikings capitalized in the game against the Bears every time it went their way. And that's the kind of thing you want to see is when you squander, You're. You're given a call that really wasn't yours to have to be able to capitalize it and at least get three points out of it is what helps them hang around, stay in the game.
Um, but, yeah, that. Yeah, that's kind of us. I think. I think we'll. We're. We're going to dive in our next episode and just kind of look at some reflection on the league as a whole. Maybe have a few hot takes mixed in there as well. And then in the next episode after that will be. Actually, this is Wednesday. We're going to publish the recap and then tomorrow we'll publish the predictions and probably Friday or Saturday come out with the reflection on the league as a whole. Might kind of get mixed up here a little bit.
[00:50:08] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:50:08] Speaker A: But I'm, I'm feeling as it pertains to the Vikings, it's going to be a fun, a fun season. After we look at this Week one, I feel fairly confident that the packers are probably going to win the division. They're probably the team to beat in the division. But the Vikings are going to be right there. It's going to be fun to watch. There's probably more kinks to work out. I sure hope it's not as bad as that. First couple quarters to work out. I am really excited for this week against Atlanta though, because I think that's a great opponent to come back and just play relaxed and free and it'll be fun to watch.
[00:50:45] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, I, I think you're probably right.
I don't know if, if it'll be quite as if the Vikings will be quite as successful as I predicted them to be. I'm, I'm okay with that, but it's just fun to root for.
[00:51:02] Speaker A: Yeah. So there you have it. Thanks for joining us. If you watch this, I'd be curious to hear what your guys feedback is on The Vikings Week 1. If you're a Vikings fan, go ahead and drop it in the comments. If you're a Bears fan and you're watching this game, what are your reflections on? Because I do think while we we don't expect the Bears to do much this year, there were bits and pieces of the Ben Johnson Caleb Williams marriage to be hopeful about.
And I'm curious how Bears fans are feeling in light of it's such a disappointing loss because you should have had that game in the bag as the Bears should have and then they give it up. But again, if you took the final outcome, how would you have felt if, if all you knew was that final outcome and you saw how Williams played and so forth. I'd be curious to hear what that is like from a Bears fan perspective as well. Until next time. We will talk to you guys later.
