Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Foreign.
Hello and welcome back to the Skullcast. My name is Asher Whitmer. I'm here with my brother Christopher.
[00:00:20] Speaker B: And.
[00:00:22] Speaker A: Sunday afternoon I received a text that I was rather shocked to receive from Christopher, as he has been the faithful, optimistic one who's not given up on this team, and he was ready to fire everybody.
What an embarrassing.
I don't. I honestly don't really have much to say. I mean, this is. I think it's a little extreme to. To be calling for firing people.
McCarthy, everything that we said is still true. McCarthy's very young, very needs to be given the time to develop, o' Connell to develop. But that game against the packers on Sunday was absolutely awful.
I don't know where you want to go ahead and start. Why. Why are you ready to jump ship and, and send everybody off for at least you. You'd be okay with that.
[00:01:19] Speaker B: J.J. mcCarthy is playing terribly, but he is playing historically bad. Like, worse than Christian Ponder.
And so I think my question.
He's shown enough. I mean, the caveat is that he's. He's been regressing. Like, it seems like he's been regressing. His mechanics have been regressing. People have talked about that. His, you know, o' Connell's talked.
Hasn't used the word regress, but he's just talked about getting back to the fundamentals over the buy. And then.
But he's shown flashes. And so, like, that's the silver lining. But this team, this coaching staff, all threw their confidence behind him and obviously must have.
You know, he. He apparently practices great and well enough that they all said no to Sam Darnold, Aaron Rodgers, and consistently was like, we believe, you know, we believe in J.J. you know, he's going to. They, they built this team as if it was a playoff team. And so there even seems to be this expectation that make a playoff run. We all thought that, but they're the coaching staff. And so, and so you have to ask yourself, why was the quarterback not ready?
Given like, like, and not just, like, teams, teams with terrible quarterbacks are playing better than the Vikings are now. And so, which also leads me to my second point of, like, okay, I could have some grace. They weren't, they weren't expecting him to be quite this bad. He practices really well. And then there's something about the lights that freezes him or whatever. Okay, you know, excuses, whatever. He. He's playing historically bad, like, worse than, Than backups. But those flashes and, like, some of the circumstances of his injuries and stuff. Okay, but then why why is this team quitting?
Why is. Why?
Like, like, like, like it's not just the quarterback who's playing terribly. The whole team has been playing terribly. We've, we've been talking about this last week. They, they totally quit. Like the, the Miles Price muffed punt where he. Number, number one special teams have been a disaster.
He should have run away from the ball if he wasn't going to field it. But instead he tries to block and gets pushed into the ball.
Turnover on very short yardage. But then the packers just walk into the touchdown like the game was not lost. It was 10, 10 and 6.
If they would have made a goal line stand, it would have been 13 and 6. We've seen way bigger comebacks even with the touchdowns 17, 6. We've seen more significant comebacks, I think from JJ McCarthy. I think, I think the.
Is very similar to the, to the fourth quarter comeback against the Bears the first week.
Why did the team, why did the team quit? That, that is to me a team quitting is on the players. But like, that's a coaching thing.
That's what coaches are for. They're there to inspire you and remind you to keep playing and to push you.
But yeah, basically, I think, yeah, my questions, the reason I don't.
And I kind of knew this at the time. I don't actually think it would be good for everyone to get fired. I think I am, I am at peace with anything that happens.
I think firing would indicate owners historically are very like impatient and brash. Brash and do stupid things quickly.
And so I think, I think there, there would be a sort of bummer feeling if, if they like cleared house, like gm, head coach, everything.
It's hard to see.
It's hard to see someone. I don't think o' Connell is going anywhere. I think they like o'. Connell. I think he, he's proven the past. I don't think you just throw those past seasons out the window.
Um, I think if the, if things don't turn around here at the end of the season, he might be on the hot seat next year. Um, and.
But I think, I think a bunch of their staff should go. Like. I think, I don't think. I don't think McCowan. This is a take I got from, from Luke Braun, so whatever. But I don't think McCowan should be around. I mean he's the quarterback's coach. I think JJ McCarthy should fire his quarterback, his personal quarterback coach. I think, I think everybody who was supposed to be involved in preparing JJ McCarthy should find new jobs.
And.
Except, you know, except for maybe o'. Connell. I mean, even as I say that, I think about. I was like, oh, the last thing JJ Needs is more change.
[00:07:13] Speaker A: But.
[00:07:13] Speaker B: But I just.
Yeah, I don't know. Oh, I think I was talking about that. Yeah, that muff punt.
Miles Price muffs the punt, and the packers walk in for a touchdown. Like, it felt in game, like that was it. Like I was listening to the game and it just like, obviously Paul Allen and Pete Bersich are homers, and they wear their emotions on their sleeves. And so that may have influenced my feeling, but just been this feeling all season long or progressively all season long where it's like, oh, that type of play is a nail in the coffin for a game like this. But they only went up 17. 6.
Shouldn't have been a game ender. And yet it was. And I felt it in the moment. I was like, oh, that's it. That's the game.
And it's something emotional. There's like this emotional immaturity about this team where it's like, they have the talent. They. They were in the game with the Eagles, they were in the game with the Steelers, they were in the game with the Ravens.
And there's just. There's just not that, like, drive that. Go get them.
I think there's. Yeah, I could go on. I could rant for a while.
[00:08:35] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:08:36] Speaker B: But in answer to your question, I think that's kind of where my IRA was at. Is just like, all the goodwill that this coaching staff has built up over the last couple of years is draining very quickly. And I was still maintaining. I was still believing them in them, because I think it's there. This team is too talented to not have that.
But I'm now just realizing, like, everything that I was upset at people for saying about the Vikings ahead of the season was correct. And so far, I've been wrong. And there's enough of these key games of like, ah, man, they could still make the playoffs if they turn it around here that they've just. They've not just lost, but they have lost miserably. And they've, like, quit during the games.
From my un. You know, untrained, you know, Monday quarterback eyes, it seems like they've quit.
[00:09:40] Speaker A: Yeah. And I think. I think that's what makes it worse. Like, I. I was trying to figure out justification for saying McCarthy is worse than Ponder. Basically, the thing he's worse than Ponder in is he has more interceptions than touchdowns.
[00:09:56] Speaker B: His.
[00:09:56] Speaker A: His pace of yardage is on pace to match Ponder. His completion percentage is slightly better than Ponders. Um, and his. His touchdown, like, he's gone dry as far as touchdown passes. He. After starting off a little bit and so. But I think part of what it is is what we're seeing in game. It. It looks. It looks awful. It looks like there's no inspiration. No.
And it's compounded by the fact that the rest of the team is not showing up, is not there.
I. I like for me personally, if they cleaned house, I'm done. Watching the Vikings like that, that sounds so uninspiring to me. And it. To me, it just says, okay, they're going to do the cycle again. The Vikings have been clearly building for something, and so I think they deserve a year or two of misery. And we as fans don't want that.
I. I didn't think we'd have to go through that. And I sort of, to be honest, question whether we will actually go through that. That everybody thought we were headed into a season of misery was kind of mocking Kwesi for competitive rebuild in 23. When things went bad, Cousins goes. Goes down and we end with a losing record. Well, then they followed up with the best season of the decade. And so I guess I'm.
There's enough history here that, like you said, I don't think we should just throw it out. I think we should give.
There's enough history here. Yes. To be critical. KO has yet to win a playoff game. I think it's fair that there needs to be some staff changes. I would be totally fine with ownership being like koc. You need to get. You need to go find a good offensive coordinator that you can work with, but somebody who's willing to. To commit to a holistic offensive approach instead of primarily passing. Even that is a little bit. It's like. Well, they did push it. It's less frustrating. It's not that Koc doesn't run the ball.
What's frustrating is when he chooses not to run the ball and. And to go try a pass or something. It's. And is he trying. Is he intentionally, as a part of McCarthy development, trying to get McCarthy comfortable in some of those hot moments?
Maybe. I don't know. But at this point, it's kind of. Yeah. Why. When. When you see that he's not succeeding in those moments. Why do you keep pushing that, that and that?
[00:12:38] Speaker B: Go ahead. Sorry.
[00:12:39] Speaker A: Go ahead.
Yeah, I mean, I get. I guess I'm.
My response. React. Is that the. The idea. I've seen a bunch Of, Of Vikings podcasters and stuff. And I cannot stand Paul Allen when the team is bad and losing. Like, I just. I shut him off. He's fun to listen to when they're. When they're good, but he gets whiny and he's like, personally, yeah. Complaining and whining. It's just like, that's the last thing I need when, When a team is bad, like, give me commentary of a game, especially when I'm just listening and I can't watch it.
[00:13:13] Speaker B: He, He.
[00:13:14] Speaker A: When he's really good, he's describing the game and you can visualize it, but when the team is bad, then it's just all of a sudden you just hear Paul Allen's opinions of the team and you no longer get the picture of the game.
[00:13:28] Speaker B: Yeah, and that's a good point.
[00:13:32] Speaker A: I just shut him. Shut him and his. I forget the Pete Bursuch.
Yeah.
But all, all that to say, yeah, this team is bad. McCarthy's the worst quarterback in the league right now. Like Kevin o'. Connell. Why. Why weren't they more prepared? Why? Why. Why does Kyle Shanahan able to take any, literally any quarterback and consistently put a team out there that is competitive? And even when they miss the playoffs, they're.
They're competitive. Last year was pretty rough for them. But you have, you have guys like him. You have guys like, you know, maybe he's the only one trying to think like, there's a. Mike McDaniels has definitely had some bad seasons. And. Yeah, like, there's definitely a lot. A lot of legit questions worth asking.
Yeah.
[00:14:26] Speaker B: But lafleur, he hasn't had to work with as many quarterbacks. But, yeah, he, he survived Malik Willis, which. Which o' Connell survived somewhat with some backups.
[00:14:38] Speaker A: Three weeks of. Carson Wentz wasn't bad. Like, the. What's been bad is. Is the guy that they chose has not been developed well. And.
[00:14:48] Speaker B: Yeah, that was, that was the other. Sorry, let me just quickly get this in. That was the other reason I was mad at o' Connell to.
Was the, the direct snap to Hawkinson on third and one was just super gimmicky. Felt super gimmicky. We had been driving down the field, making good gains.
Aaron Jones had just run for. For nine yards.
I mean, for five yards. McCarthy for. I mean, Mason for four yards. Eight years before that, 22 years before that, like, run after run after run. And then on third, not fourth, one. Third and one. Which, you know, I guess they. They figured the fourth would have been a shoe in Maybe, but just like, why. Why are we doing this? Like, yeah, that's like, that feels like second half stuff. I don't know. Maybe it's. Maybe I'd still be mad if it was second half, but just like Hawkins. Yeah.
[00:15:50] Speaker A: Anyways, I. Yeah, like, that's not a play they've.
That's not a play they've incorporated into their playbook. And. So why are you pulling that out then? Yeah, no, there's definitely play calling stuff that, That I think I would be totally fine with somebody with authority putting pressure on him. Like, you need to get a offensive coordinator. And that's. I mean, we've seen that both with. I believe, both with Kyle Shanahan and Sean McVeigh. They have both gone through seasons where they had a traditional offensive coordinator and then went back to calling plays themselves. And so it's like, I don't think that necessarily means KO is a failed coordinator. Obviously not. He's won a Super bowl as a coordinator, but he is.
[00:16:40] Speaker B: He.
[00:16:40] Speaker A: He was the season when Sean McVay needed a coordinator. But right now he's not. He's. He's not doing well.
And I think.
I think last year we saw it as well, but it was. It was masked by the fact that they.
They did win games that they. They maybe shouldn't have. And I think, like, I keep thinking of the Warren Sharp interview with Purple Daily before the season started, and he kind of brought out how the. The luck that the Vikings had in a lot of their wins last year. And I was kind of offended by that. I was like, what do you mean, the luck? And the more. The more that I see that this season unfold, the more I'm like, you know, I think that's probably true. There. There was.
Something has drastically changed on defense where they go from the best in takeaways to their. Now they're one of the worst in takeaways. They can barely take the ball away, and a lot of that is luck, especially when you're talking about fumble recovery. There's. There's absolutely no way to predict or train or whatever how to recover a fumble because the ball can bounce either way.
But they. They led the league in interceptions. Last year. They were tied for the league lead, and now they're what, they have two or three on the season? Like, they were over half.
Yeah.
And so defensively there's. There's issues.
And then offensively, the play calling and. And when they choose to do some of these trick plays, I've always. That's something that has Puzzled me a little bit with Connell is he has some pretty magnificent trick plays up his sleeve. I've always puzzled over when he chooses to use them. Why did you use that there? It doesn't feel. Yeah, it doesn't feel as. Not sure what the word is. Because Ben Johnson can be kind of predictive in his choice of trick plays, but they have so many trick plays, you never, you never know which one they're going to pull out.
So it's not. I don't think it's just the fact that OConnell's predictive. In fact, it's almost the opposite. It's like this is, this is a play for a standard run up the middle, get your yards, and he decides to do a trick play and third and one.
And it's not like even I thought about it. Was it the Ravens game where they, they had a false start, so they were pushed back. They were 15 yards to the first down. And I think it was a second.
No, it was a third. Third and 15.
And they. Instead they do this trick play and they get 11 yards out of it. So they would have. Traditionally it would have been in conversion, but because they had pushed themselves back, it still felt a little odd.
Why did they do the trick play? Especially because the, the play seemed to be designed for a check down throw. It's not like they were going deep.
And if you're, if you're doing something like that, why not run and get three to four yards and then pull out your trick play on a fourth down when people aren't expecting you to do it? And then. Although I guess if, if they're going for it on 4th, maybe people are expecting trickery up instead of punting. I don't know. I, I just haven't quite found a rhyme or reason to. When o' Connell chooses to do trick plays.
And it seems like they rarely work when he chooses to do them. Even though I think his trick plays could work if you didn't put them in these kind of high pressure situations where they have to be perfect in order to. I mean, the reality is when, when you watch some of the Lions trick plays last year or the Bears this year, they don't look like they always work out, but they're at moments in the drive when, when it still is a positive gain for you. It's not like, oh, it failed or didn't work out exactly how we wanted it to, and so now we have to punt the ball away.
[00:20:49] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:20:50] Speaker A: And they don't make all their trick. They. They do so much.
[00:20:54] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:20:55] Speaker A: There's a completion or a batting percentage, you could say, with their trick plays.
[00:21:00] Speaker B: And, and there's. I mean, I think there's also just like a degree to which a team has to earn the right to use trick plays. Like just, Just, you know, nail those basics. Like, show me that you can do elementary math.
[00:21:15] Speaker A: Yeah, exactly.
[00:21:16] Speaker B: And then pull out the algebra.
[00:21:20] Speaker A: The fundamentals for this Vikings team have just been bad this year. Yeah, they're not.
[00:21:26] Speaker B: Which is a coaching thing.
[00:21:29] Speaker A: Yeah.
On one hand. On the other, this is pro ball.
And fundamentals gets you the right.
The right to be a starter, an everyday starter.
Meaning that that's, that's personal accountability. Like you.
[00:21:48] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah. It just, it just feels.
And, And I, it's kind of funny. I remember texting you when they traded Harrison Phillips. Like, I don't, I don't like this trade.
And I came around and was at peace with it, but the reason at the time that I said that I don't, I don't like, is it just feels.
It feels disruptive and unsettling. Like, right before the season starts, we trade a core piece of the defense. Like, not just, not just core in the, in the fact that he's like, you know, a high value player, but core in the sense that like, he was a personality. People loved him. He was a part of the community, you know?
[00:22:33] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:22:35] Speaker B: And on one hand I've seen like, it wasn't even like, we traded for somebody and so now have to fit that new person in. And so it's like, okay, give them a year. But it was that we just traded.
[00:22:50] Speaker A: Him for picks so that we could go get Thielen.
[00:22:54] Speaker B: Yeah.
It was in anticipation of getting Thielen and then Thielen didn't work out.
I don't, I don't know. It just this whole retrospectively in the moment, there were things like, I don't, I don't know, but like, this team is better than that. So, like, we should be fine to develop the quarterback. And now retrospectively, it all just is. Like, man, yeah, this whole season just went. Went down the drain. Like it's. And I think, I think I agree with Purple Daily. Like, it's one of the most disappointing seasons in memory since maybe like 2010 where they followed up a legendary run with, With a dud of a season.
[00:23:40] Speaker A: Yeah, I, I think fans underestimate how much risk is involved in pro sports and coaching and leadership like that could have turned out. I mean, on one hand, just face to face, straight up value. Jalen Redmond's been one of the best on the defensive line and that's who replaced Phillips. So if you're just doing a one to one comparison, it's like, well, that's actually been maybe even a net positive.
However it took, it did, it did feel weird. It took Juice out. The fact that Thielen's not really done anything makes it all more like, why did we do all of that? And, and so, yeah, I think it's like if Thielen had come in and he had three or four touchdowns in those first three weeks when Addison was out and we're, we're three and oh or whatever like that, that would have felt totally different than the way it's been, the way it's turned out that.
[00:24:39] Speaker B: Thielen, Thielen hasn't done anything. And I don't know if you make that trade with a more experienced quarterback. And so in some ways it was a safety blanket for quarterback who also hasn't done anything.
[00:24:56] Speaker A: Yeah, exactly.
[00:24:57] Speaker B: Anyways.
[00:24:57] Speaker A: Yeah, well, we're gonna, we gotta wrap this up. So we'll go into our picks and then we'll go eat some Thanksgiving dinner. And I don't know, Ian thinks either way, either the Lions or the packers winning this week.
And so, so this is not gonna be a fun week for Vikings fans because one of them.
[00:25:21] Speaker B: That was, that was the other thing too is that both the Lions and the Bears. I was like this. The. Oh, I took my hat off. I should not have done it.
This, I was like this, this, this week's not gonna turn out so bad with the, with the Lions and Bears losing and both of them made late game comebacks.
[00:25:39] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:25:40] Speaker B: So the whole.
[00:25:41] Speaker A: There were a number of one. Yeah, this could be the.
Nick Wright could get his, his wish come true and Bears go worst to first and Vikings end up dead last in the.
[00:25:55] Speaker B: I'm so. I'm.
[00:25:58] Speaker A: You won the week last week. Sorry, I, I, we got to keep moving here. I've got some other deadlines today.
Go for it. You went 10, 11 and three. I went nine and five this week.
I decided not to try. My, my large chunk plays instead. Just gonna, I'll just go chalk. I am picking the Packers. Cause I figured that's, you know, that's possibly one I could gain you on. I also think the Cowboys are, are a little.
Gotta look out for them teams like the Eagles and the Chiefs where, where it's like assumed that they're going to be good and then they come up being more, more challenging against it. Kind of stunned Me that they came back from being down 21, but they are. I would say they are consistently the most dangerous offense in the league right now.
[00:26:51] Speaker B: Cowboys.
[00:26:52] Speaker A: The Cowboys. Obviously the Rams are really good, but the Cowboys are explosive. Like they can put up three touchdowns on you in no time.
The Rams are a mix. The Rams are a mixture of their defense getting takeaways and. And turnovers.
[00:27:11] Speaker B: And then just Matthew Stafford playing at like a high level. Just.
[00:27:18] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:27:18] Speaker B: Still able to physically throw the ball and run around a little bit.
And then mentally just at the prime of his career.
[00:27:28] Speaker A: Everybody wanted to have a conspiracy about his back heading into the season.
[00:27:35] Speaker B: Yeah, I thought he was done.
[00:27:36] Speaker A: I think he's just fine. And then we're going to go into.
[00:27:41] Speaker B: There it is the final.
[00:27:43] Speaker A: We have the Seahawks. Do we want to predict this?
40 to 6.
This could be an embarrassing blowout the way the Seahawks are playing. Yeah, I don't, I don't go for it.
[00:27:56] Speaker B: Oh, I was just gonna grumble about it.
Go for it.
[00:28:00] Speaker A: I don't. At this point, I don't regret. It's like when you, when you rewind the tape and the decision making that was on the table.
I think the Vikings made.
Made common sense moves and they would have gotten tons of heat for sticking with Darnold. And if Darnold would have been Darnold again in what he did, then everybody would have been all up in arms and. And so I don't think it's like I'm not, I'm not there where I'm like, oh, it's trendy to go.
I'll be like, they should have kept with Darnold.
But it is.
It's definitely kind of a humble pie season.
[00:28:39] Speaker B: Yeah, for sure.
[00:28:41] Speaker A: It's.
[00:28:41] Speaker B: It's a principle thing. Like my principle is that this team has spent most of its existence in mediocrity getting veteran QBs, you know, and like you said, the risk taking factor, like you, you are always going to take a certain risk bringing in new. A new young quarterback who could be a total bust. And I just think that principle of like taking a risk, trying to do something amazing is a better principle than, hey, let's stick with the known commodity quarterback. There are times where sticking with a known commodity is better. Like you don't trade Justin Jefferson for four firsts because the likelihood of you getting Justin Jefferson again is pretty low.
Yeah. But when it comes to quarterback, particularly for this team, I think it's just time to start taking some risks. And so I think like, yeah, no, no, obviously for this Season. Yeah. The Sam Darnold defenders were right long term to win a Super Bowl. Sam Darnold's not winning the Vikings the Super bowl now with this team. Like.
[00:29:56] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah.
[00:29:59] Speaker B: Anyways, I know you have to go.
[00:30:01] Speaker A: Yeah. Well, thank you for, for listening to us rant.
I.
I definitely.
Yeah, it's. It's not.
I feel like I'm kind of the tempering. Tempering the expectations this round, but the, the.
It's sort of like for those, those crossover sports fans and. And Christian people here, this is sort of like Gothardites. I think. You know, everybody's all gun ho on Gothard and then when he like, it gets exposed and they're like, niche take, totally anti got third. I feel like there were VI fans that really thought they could win a Super bowl this year. And now that they're so bad, it's like this is the worst team in the NFL history. And. And I'm like, well, I don't think it was realistic that they, they really could win a Super bowl this year or even next year. But I get the frustration and it's like, it's objectively bad. They're putting a bad product out there on the week. Yeah, yeah, he.
[00:31:08] Speaker B: He is like earning. McCarthy is like earning like a negative or like EPA. Like a negative EPA earn points average, I think is what that stands for.
So every time he has the ball, he is losing points.
[00:31:29] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:31:29] Speaker B: Anyways.
[00:31:30] Speaker A: Yeah, well, we will talk to everyone post Thanksgiving and see.
[00:31:37] Speaker B: Yeah, probably be in a better mood no matter what happens.
[00:31:44] Speaker A: Because we can hang out with family. And although Everybody was wanting McCarthy, what makes it worse is there were so many people who wanted McCarthy to be bad and now he is bad. And so people just rub that in.
[00:32:01] Speaker B: I think. I think if you're a Vikings and this is an argument for keeping some of the coaching staff, I think you have to stick with McCarthy through next season. Unless it's just absolutely awful next season. Then you put in whatever veteran you got.
[00:32:17] Speaker A: But yeah, I mean, I would be okay in the off season giving him some competition. Perhaps like judging him. Yeah. But I agree. I think, yeah, you have to see him get playing time under and continue to develop. I will say this quick, and then we gotta go.
It was a red flag to me when I hear them talking about fundamentals in the middle of season. Like, if you're working on fundamentals now at a little league baseball level, that's how it is when you have to work on fundamentals in the middle of the game or in the middle of the season, then you know you're not going to be winning games. This is totally going to be a developmental time.
And so I wonder if that's not a little bit what's happened with the rest of the players is it's just an awareness we're not going to be winning games. This, this kid needs developed. And then you, you don't have quite the edge that you would normally play with that.
Anyways, we will see you all later.
See.
