Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Foreign.
[00:00:13] Speaker B: Hello and welcome back to the Skullcast. My name is Asher Whitmer. This is my brother Christopher. And we are through thick and thin, Vikings fans. And so we talk about Vikings football even when we feel discouraged and as though there's not anything to talk about this week because we want to see the Vikings win a Super bowl and multiple Super Bowls before we die.
That's why we maintain that you don't try to ride Carson Wentz to the super bowl after a gaudy win over the Cincinnati Bengals. And what do you know, it all came crashing down in week eight as not only did Mr. Wentz and the Vikings get blown out by the Chargers 37 to 10.
Man, it was a Thursday night game, Christopher. It's, it's a week ago. It feels like two weeks ago, but oofta there, there's so much we don't. We didn't even talk about where we're going to go with this show today. Hopefully scatterbrained. Too long on us here. But there's a lot of different things to talk about. Maybe we'll just kick it off first by being like, man, I don't, I don't get Vikings fans.
I do not get what is wrong with Vikings fans. We are the franchise who has a head coach who has become the face of the NFL even though he wasn't the first guy to start rehabilitating quarterbacks. But he's, he's proven to have a method to be able to do it. I think we even saw with Wentz this year play from Wentz that we quite frankly hadn't seen in a couple of years.
We shouldn't have expected Wentz to be much. He was a backup. We've gone over that before and we'll get into his season ending surgery and injury here in a bit.
But I just don't get why the fan base is all over the place in.
Yeah, so I don't know where you start. I guess we start here by so many people now are like, oh, the Vikings should have hired Jim Harbaugh because they just blew out Kevin oconnell and the Chargers. And yes, we'll get into this as well. This was probably one of the worst losses in the Kevin OConnell era.
But like, that doesn't even make sense to me. Jim Harbaugh stepped into a football team that really had a lot of key pieces in place, particularly a franchise quarterback.
They just didn't have coaching that elevated them and took them to what they should have been.
Kevin o' Connell stepped into not Only not a very good quarterback, but some.
A bad culture, some key pieces that. That needed to be maximized, if not put in place yet.
So I don't. I don't. There isn't an ounce of me. Yes, the Chargers and Jim Harbaugh was more ready to play Thursday night a week ago than the Vikings were.
But I don't want Jim Harbaugh as the Vikings head coach.
Maybe Jim Harbaugh goes and wins a Super bowl this year. I don't know. I didn't expect the Vikings to win a Super bowl this year. I expected the Vikings to develop a quarterback, and that's what I'm looking forward to seeing. But what's. What's up with all this talk of, like, the Vikings need to just get McCarthy out there and it'll be bad and it's bad, and then maybe somebody will like it just enough to trade for him, or then they'll move on and realize they made a mistake. Like, I just don't get the irrationality of, like, we've been around this bush before. I don't want to beat it too hard, but we need to see McCarthy. And Kevin O' Connell has a plan of development. We've seen him prove it to work.
I don't get the rationale, the irrationality in how the Vikings fan base is right now.
There are legitimate. Like, this is probably one of the lowest points in the Kevin o' Connell era.
It feels at least maybe.
[00:04:37] Speaker A: Maybe even.
[00:04:40] Speaker B: I don't know. I can't even tell. I see some stuff that are like, the locker room is getting splintered and divided, and stuff is like. I'm not sure if that's actually true, but people are definitely trying to make a narrative about that, and I could see it potentially happening.
Everything with how Wentz was handled in the Chargers game definitely raises some flags of, like, what was Kevin o' Connell doing? Anyways? Yeah, that's the opening rant to introduce a episode. An episode that is probably going to just be ranting.
What are your thoughts?
[00:05:15] Speaker A: Well, yeah, there's a lot there.
Like, I think. I think. I think it's a dark. It's. It's like the lowest. The lowest point probably in Kevin OConnell's era.
I remember 20, especially.
[00:05:33] Speaker B: In terms of, like, multiple kinds of adversity coming their way.
Yeah, they've gone through adversity, but it's like a bunch of different kinds that are coming. Yeah, sorry, I interrupted.
[00:05:44] Speaker A: I think it was, like, two years ago today that Kirk Cousins was injured.
That. That was probably pretty Low because we were all getting our hopes back up because he was playing really well. The Vikings are playing really well. Beat the. Beat the packers, but.
And then also three years ago in 2022, the Cowboys basically shut us out 40 to 3.
[00:06:11] Speaker B: I forgot about that.
[00:06:12] Speaker A: Which was also a pretty.
It. It wasn't the same type of.
Hold on one second.
My daughter's.
[00:06:20] Speaker B: Go for it.
[00:06:21] Speaker A: Yeah. Say hi to Uncle Asher.
No.
So I think you're right. I think, like, the nature of the adversity and just kind of the questions around how Kevin o' Connell handled Wentz's injury could. Could be.
Could be kind of disturbing.
Just because.
Just because part of his. Part of his appeal is culture and being a players coach and advocating for people and having, like, a good training staff. And there's a number of weird injuries. The way. The way Dara saw has been handled, the way o' Neil was handled, the.
[00:07:08] Speaker B: Way.
[00:07:11] Speaker A: Wentz is handled. And some Questions around how McCarthy was handled raised some questions, but I don't think necessarily, I don't think we're privy to all the information. I think that they're all adults. And so there's.
There's the buck fault. The buck stops on Kevin o', Connell, but there's also.
Is probably not as black and white as, oh, it's all Kevin oconnell's fault. He should be fired.
It also. And then. Yeah, just the big question mark. I feel like if we, if, if we were going through a bunch of this adversity, even injuries, but we had a. Had a good feeling that, like McCarthy, McCarthy was playing well or like McCarthy's the future, it probably feel a lot different.
But we haven't seen McCarthy play. He hasn't practiced a lot the last two years.
I think there's a really high anxiety among Vikings fans that we've just wasted the last year and a half, particularly of Justin Jefferson's career. I think we're worried about Justin Jefferson wanting out.
I think that makes it dark. I don't. Justin hasn't hinted an iota of wanting out.
[00:08:30] Speaker B: In fact, this was a contract year. It might be different.
[00:08:33] Speaker A: Right? Yeah.
[00:08:34] Speaker B: Where are you going to say, in fact, if anything.
[00:08:36] Speaker A: What.
Well, if anything, he has. He has indicated the total opposite of, of somebody who wants out.
[00:08:46] Speaker B: Like, he's.
[00:08:47] Speaker A: Yeah, he's a pretty strong leader on the team. He.
He might get upset at their effort that they put in last week or whatever, but he hasn't. He. He isn't showing signs that should. Like the only thing that should make us worried as Fans is maybe some past experiences, but he's. He's his own person. He's a different person.
And he's given us all signs that, like, he's committed. And I think that they should be down. I think the Vikings should be down. I think they should be discouraged.
[00:09:23] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:09:24] Speaker A: Because they haven't played well. And I think that.
That there should be a certain amount of tension in the building.
That would be like a good tension. Hopefully not like a blaming. Blame shifting tension, but a sort of like.
Like we are trying to figure this out, and anytime you bring ideas to the table, there's gonna be tension between those ideas.
But, yeah, I think. I think more than anything, the thing I walk away from in the last couple of weeks. Walk away from is just the kind of the insanity of the fan base, like you said.
[00:10:08] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:10:09] Speaker A: Because two weeks ago, they were saying, why. Why is McCarthy not out there? They're. They're treating him like a baby.
And now a bunch of people are saying Koshi should be fired because of how he handled.
How he let Wentz, you know, play through a torn labrum or. You know, on one hand, you have this very logical.
You have this very logical approach that says, hey, he's a young qb. I don't want him to mess up his mechanics by playing through a weak ankle.
Here's a veteran QB who wants to play. They. It sounds like they had discussions. It sounds like they talked to the medical staff and like, maybe there's maybe. Maybe the medical staff.
You know, whatever.
The. The criticism for o' Connell is, why were you, like, why were you passing so late in the game?
Why were you not running more?
I think.
[00:11:17] Speaker B: Well, there.
[00:11:18] Speaker A: I think I dis. I think I disagree.
But. Yeah, yeah, well, yeah, they're down. But like, at some. At some point, you have to realize you're not like, you have a. There was.
[00:11:29] Speaker B: There was one called and just run.
[00:11:31] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah. You just. You're like, this guy is dying.
He was.
[00:11:37] Speaker B: He's not.
[00:11:38] Speaker A: Like, he's not dying, but he's not dying, but he's clearly in just tremendous pain.
[00:11:45] Speaker B: Yeah, it was.
Sorry, if I could jump in just a tad.
It was confusing to watch because I've never seen somebody show much emotion of pain as. As Wentz did, and yet he would come off and after a little bit, he'd be, like, up walking around smiling. And so, like, I couldn't figure out what was going. Like, is he actually in pain? Is he wanting to.
I think that. Sorry, our.
Our heater just turned on for the first time this fall is. It's been like 24 degrees, 22 right now.
And there must be some dust in there because it smells a little.
Yeah.
[00:12:33] Speaker A: So you need the old trusted radiators.
[00:12:36] Speaker B: I was like, what, What.
What's going on?
What was I saying? The.
Yeah, I think. I think the question is why?
Why did you know? I think when I look back at the.
At the game, I would have taken him out after the first half. Like when it ended and it was clear that's when you bring that. That feels like a good spot. You could have brought in Brosmer and.
And you're just like, the game was already kind of out of reach. I think they were down 20, 2017 points or something like that going into the half. And that was when Wentz was in tremendous pain.
Took a long time to. To get up off the turf. I forget what all happened because it almost seemed like Brosmar was going to have to come in. Was there a.
Maybe a replay or something that took place and it gave him a little extra time. Wentz ended up doing it, finishing it out, I think.
But the.
[00:13:39] Speaker A: Yeah, the.
[00:13:41] Speaker B: Yeah, it was just kind of confusing to tell, but because Wentz. Wentz was giving just physically different. Communicating different impressions.
And not only that, I think fans think that like Wentz is some. What I was going to say is I think Kevin o' Connell was particularly in the game a little bit in a no win situation because if. If you put Brosmer in and then things are just awful, then everybody's tearing him apart for putting a young rookie in at that time, like Draf.
Yeah. Undrafted and all that.
Or Brosmer goes and gets injured, McCarthy's forced to play and McCarthy still hasn't had fully practice. And then it's just more disruption to your QB development. But then on top of that, you. You see what Wentz went through and it's horrible. Like, I don't. I'm not sure how I'd feel if I was Wentz. Obviously, you know, we'll probably find out in a bit kind of how Wentz felt. But something that. It seems like fans, fans think that Wentz had a starting job regardless of where he was and Wentz was not starting anywhere.
I don't know that he would be starting anywhere, even with the Q NFL QBs. I mean he, he was ranked what, 26 this week in overall quarterback, so perhaps a team would have picked him up and started him. But he, he's. There is this aspect we need to remember that he's wanting to get playing time to have that Sam Darnold type, hey, I still have something to me show.
Honestly, I think he's maybe done the opposite. I mean, I. I would say he's probably still a cop, a competent backup quarterback, but the notion that somehow Kevin o' Connell ruined like a franchise quarterback or potential franchise quarterback by having him out there, I think that's irrational.
[00:15:50] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah.
People. People are saying that he ruined Wentz.
[00:15:54] Speaker B: Yeah. By. By, you know, now he's out for the whole rest of the season. The other thing I wonder is, I.
[00:16:01] Speaker A: Mean, I think, yeah, he was probably injured for the rest of the season in.
In Cleveland or like, when they played Cleveland.
[00:16:11] Speaker B: Well, that's what I was going to say is we as fans might not be aware of the surgery may have been already on the table. Like, you need surgery.
The question is, how much are you wanting to play to put stuff. Because it was a non throwing arm.
And yeah, I mean, obviously, I don't know what all the internal conversation was, but because of what it is, we know the injury didn't happen against the Chargers, which on one hand opens the Vikings staff up to more criticism. On the other hand, it kind of helps us understand a little bit what they were. Have been working with.
[00:16:54] Speaker A: According to what some of the insiders and local and beats beat writers were talking about, it sounds like it did happen in Cleveland.
Yeah. And he wore a brace.
[00:17:05] Speaker B: He wore.
[00:17:06] Speaker A: I forget what happened against the Steelers, but. Oh, wait, actually, he played the Steelers first, but yeah, yeah, happened in London against Cleveland.
Then it was the bye. Then he wore a brace in the Eagles game, and then in the Chargers, he wore like, that monstrosity of a bracelet.
Yeah. Jeremiah Searles was saying that the moment he saw that brace that he played against the Chargers, like, oh, he tore his labrum because I guess he had the same exact thing happen.
[00:17:38] Speaker B: Interesting. Yeah.
[00:17:40] Speaker A: So, like, it sound. It sounds based on that and like, you know, I don't know exactly what conversations they had, but I. I think it was kind of like, obviously a guy like Wentz is gonna want to play. He's gonna say, I can play. Whatever.
There's. There's probably somewhat of like that ethical question of, you know, should, like, the medical staff and the coaching staff making decisions of, like, in hindsight, maybe we shouldn't have let him play.
But the brutal reality of the NFL is that most guys are playing through something.
And so.
And so when a guy tells you, I can play, I want to play through, then.
Then, yeah, it becomes a little bit of a harder decision, probably to make.
[00:18:35] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:18:35] Speaker A: But, yeah, I mean, it's. It's. It's unfortunate. I mean, I think. I think I'll. I'll always feel some empathy and fandom for wins. But based on, like, he came in, he put this team on his back. He was playing for his childhood favorite team. He was playing for his career.
He was. He was playing through incredible pain.
If I had any criticism for him, maybe he should have signed back in the spring and come through training camp. Like, on one hand, he, you know, he's coming in as a backup, so we had no, we didn't have no idea. But. But it was, like, not the plan for him to play four games.
And so getting thrown in in week three, you know, probably the idea was, you know, I'll. I'll stay with my family, I'll skip training camp, I'll come in and then I'll have all of October and November to, like, catch up and. And I'll have all. I'll have all of October, November to. To catch up, and then if something happens in the late season, I'll be ready.
You know, it's a bit of a gamble.
[00:19:53] Speaker B: You said he put the team on his back, and. And I sitting here thinking he put the team on his back and realized he couldn't stand up.
Yeah.
[00:20:04] Speaker A: He didn't put the team on his back, I guess, but he, he, he, you know, he braced himself for.
For trouble or like, for trial.
[00:20:18] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:20:19] Speaker A: Yeah. For the sake.
[00:20:20] Speaker B: Yeah. And I think you're.
I think you're right.
[00:20:23] Speaker A: It's.
[00:20:24] Speaker B: It's. It's clear they had some conversation with him in the spring, and he wanted to wait and see if. Yeah. If there were any starting roles or whatever his options were.
And so I do think. I think we see that. I'm not convinced Wentz would have been a Sam Darnold even if he had all of training camp, you know, a Sam Darnold story.
But it definitely would have helped in. In terms of some of the plays. Knowing the plays better, being able to.
Yeah, I mean, we just. We saw it as it moved on that it was.
It was harder for him to complete, you know, to get the offense rolling quite like. I think generally, if you. If you're. As you become familiar with NFL speed of play, like Kevin OConnell's system is fairly easy for. For competent quarterbacks to be able to operate and run.
Even someone like Nick. Nick Mullins, Kevin o' Connell had him moving the ball great, moving it well. And it's. It's been the rookies that really need development. Jaren hall, even Josh Dobbs. I, I, obviously he's not a rookie, but he just hasn't had a lot of NFL playing time and then JJ here that have a hard time running the system and, and that's because of the complexity of the, the system and the, and the play calls and so forth. I, I would so if we kind of divert off the injury, there's quite a bit out there about the injury. I, I, that's not the piece. I have concerns for the coaching staff after the Chargers game. How the injury is handled is probably number three or four on it. It's not.
[00:22:22] Speaker A: Yeah, that big.
[00:22:22] Speaker B: I don't and it's not number three or four and I just think everything's burning up. Kevin o' Connell should be fired and all this. That's ridiculous. I'm seeing things like comparing to Childress and Zimmer and, and what they accomplished in their fourth season and so forth. And, and first of all, the, Kevin OConnell's fourth season isn't even half over yet, so let's not close the book on it.
Secondly, Zimmer and Childers, like when you compare their first three seasons, Kevin o' Connell is off the charts better.
He had two playoff trips, whereas I don't think either Childress or Zimmer had multiple playoff trips in their first three seasons and neither of them had won a playoff game within their first three seasons. So if we're going to compare, let's compare apples to apples. Let's wait until this season is over.
A unique thing about this season compared to Zimmer and Childress is that Kevin o' Connell in his fourth season is right in the middle of quarterback development and facing a bunch of injuries. And look at what Kevin O' Connell has done with backup QBs in his three and a half years compared to what some of those other guys did. Now the, the one criticism that I have from Kevin o', Connell, I came in to the year saying you looked at the Lions game in Week 18 of last year and the playoff game against the Rams and obviously the Lions game, it was like blowout. It's whatever. Defensively I thought they played really well. It just the offense didn't get moving until so, so until the very end then defense kind of unravels as well, which is the nature of when, when the offense of a team can't get going, then the defense and ends up by the end of the game looking kind of bad themselves as well.
However, I would have expected them to be Better prepared. Heading into that, you knew it was tough. The la, the, you know, what was that Week five or six when they played Detroit in the, in the regular season last year.
Like I was disappointed they weren't better prepared. The offense wasn't better prepared.
Part of that was for the first time the whole season we saw a defensive unit just blitz the wazoo out of Sam Darnold and.
And then we knew what happened. What really disappointed me was the Rams game. It looked like they were entirely unprepared. You should have known what the game plan was. And there again, the Rams needed to shift it to Arizona. They had all this chaos with fires going on. And you go into that playoff game and the Rams were prepared and it looked like Minnesota was the team that was relocating and dealing with all this stuff.
And so we, we're now in through eight weeks, seven games in 2025. And when you look back stemming back into those Rams and Lions games, they have had four games for sure against playoff caliber teams. If we, if we consider their Lions last year, the Rams last year, and then you have the Eagles this year and the Chargers this year, we could expand that even further to, to, you know, kind of bordering teetering on playoffs with the Steelers and the Falcons. Now the Falcons are super inconsistent, but they have shown to, to have a defensive unit that just totally messes up really good offenses. The Bills probably the prime example. When they, when they beat the Bills, the Steelers, that game wasn't as bad as the Eagles and the Chargers and the Lions and the Rams, whatever. And we even talked about the Eagles really, they should have won that game. But here's what I come back to when, when they played against Cleveland, their O line was decimated and it, at the time, it was one, I think, the best ranked defense.
Houston's always been up there, but it was one of the best defenses on the season.
And Kevin o' Connell clearly had a game plan and they had prepped for it and they had all kinds of movement work in the pocket getting Wentz open and I'm sorry, getting Wentz to spots where he could make good plays to open receivers and so forth and so.
But against this Chargers game, we didn't see that even, even against the Eagles. Again, I didn't watch much of the Eagles game, so. And I know it was a closer game.
Some of the analysis that I saw of it, yeah, I didn't quite see the creativity in game calling and prep and even more so the defense the last two games has just felt really soft. Doesn't feel dominating. It feels, it feels like people can slice it up like crazy. There's not pressure and I'm, I'm kind of at the place of like, I don't want anybody else. I trust Kevin O' Connell's process with JJ McCarthy quarterback development. We know that he can elevate quarterbacks. We've seen him do that.
My question is, why does it seem like when you come against playoff caliber teams, you guys aren't prepared.
You, you go against really good defensive unit like the, the Cleveland Browns and you have a creative game plan. Even, even I would say against the Bears, that, that game is so unique because it's JJ's first game and everything and things really struggle to get going. But it seemed like there was a lot more focused intensity on, like, how can we exploit some of the Bears weaknesses, maneuver to our strengths and so forth and adjusting in the middle of a game.
The Chargers, there, there was zero adjustments.
This, it just looked flat. It looked like nobody showed up to the game. And I was grateful Kevin o' Connell acknowledged it and the podium saying, we weren't prepared. Starting with the, or including the coaches. I forget how he worded it exactly, but that, that feels a little bit like stating the obvious.
That was really obvious. And we now have four to five games, consecutive games recently against playoff teams where you guys lost.
One of them, you maybe could have won. Two of them maybe could have won, but you've had three utter blowouts where it looked like you didn't show up, you were not there. And I think that's my biggest question is where in the world are you guys? In some of the biggest games in the last 10 games you've played, you all then show up, starting with the coaching. And that's the thing that puzzles me the most.
I'll turn it over to you now that I've kind of.
[00:29:46] Speaker A: Yeah, no, I don't know that I have much to add to that. I think, I think you're exactly right. I think it is, it is confusing. Like there, there is this sort of cycle of blame in the sense of like the code. Even, even if the coaches are game planning, the personnel still have to execute the game plan. So in the same way that, you know, things might fall apart for McCarthy and then it's like, all right, what are we going to do now?
That could also be happening defensively as well.
But then, but then in some ways that also comes around back to coaching because it's like, well, why, why aren't these guys, you know, disciplined or what you know, if they're not capable of doing that, why didn't you figure that out? Or, you know.
Yeah. I mean, in. In some ways it feels a little bit. Yeah, a little bit. Like maybe Flores's Saul has been solved. I think he's been solved before, and he's.
He's like, worked through it.
[00:30:56] Speaker B: Well. So can I jump in on that? Just a dominate too much here. But I actually.
I wish Flores would go back to some of his old ways so he's not blitzing near as much. Dropping guys back. And then it takes pressure off of the qb, and I wonder if he's not trying to comp. Like, when I try to ration out, like, what is Flores doing? I wonder if he's not trying to compensate for feeling solved. And so then he's like, well, I'm going to drop guys back so they don't just, you know, dice it up against us in the passing game. But then it seems like QBs don't get any pressure. And so, yeah, there's part of me that's like, you can't play a Vic Fangio style of defense now because you didn't set up a roster to play a Vic Fangio.
[00:31:46] Speaker A: Right.
[00:31:46] Speaker B: Style of defense. Like, do your thing that you've done, getting pressure, blitzing from multiple sides and.
And being deceptive because, yeah, it's more common now that he'll show pressure and then back off, whereas it used to be. It looked normal, and then, boom, all of a sudden there was, yeah, two or three extra guys on the line. But I don't know.
[00:32:08] Speaker A: I.
[00:32:08] Speaker B: Obviously, I've not had a conversation with Floors. I don't know what he's doing.
[00:32:13] Speaker A: He.
I mean, I don't think we can escape just the kind of the duds that Allen and Hargrave have been. Like, we were supposed to be getting the fully revamped defensive line or not. Not fully revamped, but like.
Like, we were supposed to be able to do similar things with four people that we did with six people last year so that they would. There would be more personnel to run around the rest of the field. And they just haven't really lived up to that. And even some of the more developmental guys have been outplaying them, particularly Jalen Redmond.
But yeah, yeah, I don't know. I do agree with you. Like, there is. There is, like, a disheartening of, like, it feels like you don't have a plan. Like, obviously they do because, you know, they're professional coaches. They're not walking into you know, the Chargers game, like, I haven't thought of a plan yet, but just something's not.
Something's not clicking. Something's not working. It's not creative or like, they're. They're playing it safe or something.
[00:33:27] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. Obviously, I'm. I'm not trying to say they don't have a plan. Right. It doesn't feel like they were prepared. Like, for what? Like, they were in the Cleveland game. Like, I would have said the Cleveland game, they looked more prepared. Some of the execution wasn't there, but as far as some of the schemes and what they were doing, solved, I mean, they've. Even the Cincinnati, you had two of the best pass rushers in the league totally neutralized in those two games.
[00:33:59] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:33:59] Speaker B: And then you go against the Chargers, and they're. They're. They're all over. They've got all kinds of pressure all over you, and. Yeah, that's where I'm just like, wait, what was the difference? You had a really good plan against those two guys.
[00:34:13] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I don't. I don't. I don't really know. I.
I.
You know, I want to say injuries, but the Chargers had injuries. The 49ers have had injuries. You know, I mean, I will say, like, you know, we were. We were in it till the end with the Steelers and the Eagles, and so there's. There's, like, a part of me. Did Wins play four games or five games?
[00:34:44] Speaker B: He played. Played five. He's two and three.
[00:34:46] Speaker A: Five. Yeah.
Like, I remember people were really upset after the Eagles game.
I think in hindsight, we didn't. We didn't realize things can always get worse.
But I remember coming on here, Coming on here and being a little bit confused by how upset people were at the Eagles games. And I think it was primarily just like.
Yeah, just some.
I don't remember all the complaints now.
[00:35:15] Speaker B: But, I mean, we looked at the stats.
It should have been a win for the Vikings. Like, they led in every offensive metric.
[00:35:28] Speaker A: We played pretty well. And I think Kevin o' Connell schemed it up yet, like, Wentz. Wentz had some just, like, really dumb plays.
Yeah, that was where he did that, like, weird shovel pass.
Intentional grounding. Yeah. Yeah. It's so. So, like, I think looking back at the season, I think the reason this game just feels so dark and discouraging is because it's just. It just feels like the team didn't show up.
And.
And I think kind of what you're getting at with, like, the preparedness thing is, is that feels like maybe, maybe there's like a thread in all, all of the, all the chickens are coming home to roost and hopefully, hopefully McCarthy can give us some energy and some buzz. But um, it feels, it feels like, it feels like this game, I don't know if it's a must win because any, like, I don't know if it's any more of a must win than any other game in the season, but it feels like it's a must fight hard game. Like, like in this Lions game you have to come out and you have to, you have to battle and hopefully McCarthy has not been like demoralized or discouraged. I don't, I don't think he would have. Other than injuries can be demoralizing. But like, other than that, like, I don't, I don't, I don't know why he wouldn't like in, in some ways maybe, maybe he can come in and have a bit of a reset and say, all right, you know, that same where, where else would you rather be mentality can apply against these Lions.
But yeah, if they come, if they come out in the Lions game, you just feel lethargic. Then the, the rumors feels like, feels like it kind of confirms all of the fears and rumors of the, of the team splintering and of there being deeper problems.
[00:37:35] Speaker B: Yeah.
Yeah. And so I don't, I'm kind of totally in this wait and see mode. Like I don't really know what, what to think of or, or to expect in this coming weeks game against the Lions.
I want, I want to see a gritty fight. I want something like the, you know, last year midseason game when they played the Lions, where it went back and forth all game long.
I want to see McCarthy have a good, you know, put 200 plus passing yards up. Let's, let's get a running game going that I want to see the defense like, but I'm just not. I'm not sure what to expect.
This is the toughest opponent I think that the Vikings will have faced so far in this season. So is it going to be a 41 to 7 blowout or. I don't know what it's going to look like, but yeah, it's kind of discouraging where they stand.
[00:38:43] Speaker A: And there's a flip. You know, there's a flip. Everybody, everybody has to play Thursday night games. So obviously like the Chargers were ready for Thursday night game and I don't think that's an excuse for how they played, but there is, there is a flip side that as Much as we were unprepared for the Chargers game, we now had like a mini buy to prepare for the Lions game.
[00:39:05] Speaker B: True. Although the last two years the Vikings haven't done very good on off their bye week.
But yeah, was, I can't remember, was the, was the Lions game last year off their bye week or was it before their bye week?
[00:39:20] Speaker A: It kind of feels like it was off their bye week, maybe looking it up here.
[00:39:23] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, it was, it was after their bye week and then they went 02.
So I guess if this is following suit, The Vikings are now 02. Why, why do they, I guess that makes sense. Do the, do the Thursday night game immediately following your game off the bi week.
But why, why would you not put a Thursday night game right after the buy?
[00:39:52] Speaker A: I don't, I don't know if the schedule makers are thinking that deeply. I think, I think the buy like last year.
[00:39:58] Speaker B: Yeah, last year it was by Sunday game, Thursday night game.
So I think the buy was this year.
[00:40:05] Speaker A: I think they have more choice in when they have their bye week based on their international schedule.
[00:40:12] Speaker B: Oh, I see.
[00:40:13] Speaker A: Like, I think, I think it's more about, hey, we would rather have our bye week after our international games.
[00:40:21] Speaker B: Yeah, well, let's, let's look at our, let's look at what we have, what we expect around the league. Can share my screen here. In all this depressing talk, I do have some good, good news for yourself.
I'm now just tied with you in the league. We have a tide record 75 and 45. On the year. I went 9 and 4. Last week you went 7 and 6.
[00:40:49] Speaker A: I got too creative. Or maybe not creative enough.
[00:40:52] Speaker B: Yeah, I was gonna say, I think I may have been the one that got lucky on a couple creatives. So we have, we're pretty much in lockstep this week as well. Although I, I'm going to stick with my Texans. I, I, I mean, they're not my Texans. I just, I like C.J. stroud. I still have something in me for Daniel Hunter. They have a really good defense. I don't like Sean Payton. I'm not a fan of Bo Nix.
I do live in Colorado, so I should be a Broncos fan, but I'm not.
And I just think the Texans might, they're at home also a little bit. After watching how the Bears played this past week, I'm like, huh. I think the Bengals could get them.
So I have, I have the bang. You're right. Eating the Bears.
[00:41:43] Speaker A: I think the Bengals, I think the Joe Flacco Led Bengals could beat him.
[00:41:48] Speaker B: Are you teasing? Are you poking me or what?
[00:41:54] Speaker A: It could go either way.
No, I, I, I, there's very much potential for this to be a slop fest. There's also very much potential for, for, yeah, like, I don't like Flacco is such a wild card.
[00:42:10] Speaker B: Like.
Yeah.
[00:42:13] Speaker A: And, and that team, that team is that offensively at least, that team is way better than the Browns were.
[00:42:22] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:42:23] Speaker A: So if he passes that ball to Jamar Chase, then, I mean, the Browns.
[00:42:29] Speaker B: Had a better defense than the Bears do, in my opinion, maybe than the Bengals.
[00:42:35] Speaker A: Do you mean the Browns?
[00:42:38] Speaker B: Yeah. Sorry, what did I say?
[00:42:40] Speaker A: You said then the Bears do.
[00:42:41] Speaker B: Oh, yeah, yeah. Who did the Bears play? The Browns last year? I mean, last week, who did the Bengals play?
[00:42:50] Speaker A: They played Baltimore. No, they played.
[00:42:53] Speaker B: Yeah, they played the Bears played Baltimore. Yeah, yeah. The Bengals beat the Bears, right? Who did the Bengals beat? No, the Bengals lost to the Jets. That's who it was. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's right.
Yeah.
Yeah. I don't, I mean it's, I agree with you. It could go either way. I just think, I think the Bears have had a nice run. Caleb is, got a long ways to go yet. Obviously they're sitting at 4 and 3. Vikings are at 3 and 4. So yeah, it's going to, and I think we both think the Vikings are going to go three and five. There's part of me, I'm going to put this out there.
[00:43:28] Speaker A: I almost picked the Vikings.
[00:43:31] Speaker B: I almost did too. There's part of me that, and I'm trying to determine, like, is, is this just wishful thinking?
Maybe. But there's part of me that thinks several things. You know, we thought against the Eagles it couldn't get worse and then it got worse. So maybe the same is going to be true this week. But I, I do think the Vikings and the criticism of them are added at a low, an all time low this season. And I don't think they're as bad as people think they are coming off that blowout by the Chargers.
And so I, I think you could expect the, a better showing.
Now, Dan Campbell is probably one of the best coaches in the league at having his team ready to play a competitive team. And they're going to be ready. It's going to be a very tough game. But then I think of McCarthy and I just, I think McCarthy has a competitive it factor that makes him thrive in moments. And obviously I'm going off of one game, but I wonder what we'll see if we see some of that come out against the Lions and maybe. Maybe it'll be a shocker for the world. But I do think for now it's like, well, the Lions have proven themselves. You don't bet against them right now. The packers are that place. The Chiefs are at that place. Patriots are kind of playing that way, especially with their, with their schedule right now. Same thing with the Colts. The Vikings are at a place right now where you don't choose them to win.
Yeah. Prove yourselves, guys.
[00:45:08] Speaker A: Until that was that. That was absolutely. My, My logic was like, it feels like the Vikings could win this game, but you just. Yeah. You don't trust them right now. Yeah.
[00:45:19] Speaker B: And then the final four games of the season, we are in lock step until we started. We hopped on to start this episode and Christopher's like, can I change my Chiefs pick to the Bills?
And so I guess you don't want to take the lead over me this week because I'm picking the Bengals and you're picking the. I'm picking the Chiefs and they're going to win.
I'm kidding.
No, his logic was good. You.
I mean, you could explain your logic.
[00:45:53] Speaker A: Oh, I like, I picked the Chiefs because they have been playing a lot better and it, and it does feel a little bit like the Chiefs are inevitable.
But.
But the Bills have had their number the last couple of years in season.
They've played really well against the Chiefs. And so, yeah, my primary logic was just history and location.
[00:46:18] Speaker B: I think the Chiefs are playing at a rate right now where they look better than they have.
Yeah, I would say for a couple of years. Yeah, they definitely look better than they did last year when they played the Bills and the Bills.
Going into the Chiefs game. Last year, the Bills were one of the best teams in the league and they've been got this year. They were got by the Patriots, they were got by the Falcons. And.
And so I, I expected to be a classic Allen vs Mahomes game, but I, I'm confident staying with the Chiefs.
[00:46:54] Speaker A: But yeah, I mean, the Chiefs. I remember one of the last years Tom Brady went to the super bowl with the patriots.
He. They went 03. I think it was like to start. Yeah, it was like September was just them getting, getting in season shape and then they went on and won the super bowl. And it feels like the Chiefs are kind of in that. That dynasty mode where it's like, we've been here so many times. We'll take September as a preseason.
[00:47:27] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. And it's interesting. Like, I want to see the Lions Eagles like when. When do they play, if they play or the Packers Eagles. Because it's, it's like the Eagles have this knack of just like almost totally collapsing mid season and then they, they get themselves together and I mean they, they have such good, such a good roster.
[00:47:53] Speaker A: Lions, Eagles, they should be able to week 11.
[00:47:57] Speaker B: So we, we have a couple weeks yet. But because just like we feared it, it seemed like maybe that Vikings game was a get right game for the Eagles and they're back into oh my Saquon's running around again. And yeah.
[00:48:15] Speaker A: Yep. Glad.
[00:48:16] Speaker B: Glad the Vikings can do some good to some people.
[00:48:19] Speaker A: Service.
[00:48:23] Speaker B: Oh, we. We may not be the irrational fire Kevin o', Connell, but we. We definitely are feeling our cynicism this week a little bit more than normal. I'm curious, if you're a Vikings fan, how are you feeling after two of the worst losses of the season so far?
I don't know. I say the worst loss is because the defense gave up more points than ever. But the Eagles loss wasn't.
You know, Falcons and Chargers were probably the two worst losses. It's.
[00:48:55] Speaker A: Yeah, it's a worse loss because Falcons could easily be like, the defense played incredibly that night and it was just almost entirely JJ McCarthy and the lack of Derisa.
I think. I think these just feel like, oh, wow, this is.
This is starting to. Feels like it's starting to fall apart.
[00:49:16] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah, yeah. So drop a comment. Let us commiserate together. If you're a.
A Lions fan, feel free to comment.
Please be gentle with us.
We will be gentle with you when.
When we take back the North.
I say that tongue in cheek. If you're a Packers fan, you can.
[00:49:41] Speaker A: Just stay out of.
[00:49:43] Speaker B: Yeah, I was gonna say just stay out. You're not. This is not your week.
If you're a Bears fan, we beat you in week one. We'll.
We'll see each other again.
If there's, if there's. Any team that I still think the Vikings can play with, I think it's the Bears and the Giants maybe that's falling away, I don't know. But I would. If you're a Bears fan, I wouldn't get too cocky yet. But anyways, we. We love you all.
We'll see you guys next week.
