Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Foreign.
[00:00:13] Speaker B: Hello and welcome back to the Skullcast. My name is Asher Whitmer and I'm here with my brother Christopher. We are two brothers who love to talk about football and we grew up in Minnesota, so we are ride or die Vikings fans in the best of times and in the worst of times. Last year we had the fairy tale Sam Darnold breaking out year, and now we have this mountainous roller coaster, this alpine slide style.
[00:00:49] Speaker A: Alpine 5.
[00:00:51] Speaker B: I don't know why that metaphor popped into my head, but this like, jerk. Have you ever been on those, like, where they like, they feel so jerky worse than roller coasters because they don't have the slanting with them and so forth.
Just like jerk. Oh, I see what you.
[00:01:04] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. It's like, like you never like homemade roller coasters. Yeah.
[00:01:09] Speaker B: What direction it's going to go as the Vikings drop to the Ravens. Now, we both predicted the Ravens would win, so yeah, we can feel good about cowards, but just an ugly. I don't know.
Yeah, we were just talking about Christopher. Maybe you want to dive in. Why? Why did it feel. Because obviously the Chargers game goes down as the ugliest game of the season.
And then you have the them beating the Lions, which was. We slammed them for lack of preparation heading into the Chargers game. And they looked prepared heading into the Lions game.
And I don't know if it was net. It didn't stand out to me as much of a lack of preparation going into the Ravens game.
[00:01:55] Speaker A: More.
[00:01:56] Speaker B: More. It's like so Price fumbles twice. He.
They recovered the one. So it didn't turn out as bad as it could have been, but just kind of some half hazard like that. That second one is like, what's he doing? Like what it.
Yeah, it didn't need to be. Thankfully they got it back.
Even Jefferson like falling down and. And running some.
Obviously I don't know what all. Exactly it was going on. We were just talking a little bit about the criticism of Jefferson. Maybe there were things he saw. But yeah, just in 12 targets and he gets four catches. You like sometimes our criticism is why aren't you Targeting the number one wide receiver more?
He got targeted. Obviously it's not 1820 targets like Jamar Chase gets often, but for the highest paid member of the team, you expect more than four of 12 catches to come in. And they weren't all. And I think that's what feels just kind of ugly is it wasn't all J.J. mcCarthy. There was some.
Obviously him falling down makes that one interception look really bad.
But o' Connell, like the, the Vikings were shredding the Baltimore Ravens in the run game. They got that first drive worked beautifully. And then we go away from the run game and you're throwing it deep on a three and one when you're, you're averaging over six yards a run, if I remember correctly. Why aren't you going to the run and getting your first down and then pulling out some deep bombs and whatever And I, I don't know, I, I just walk away. It's like I, it, it didn't strike me as a lack of preparation quite like the Chargers game or some of the other games, but it struck me as a lack of effort and like even on the play calling side, like recognizing your own weakness and like we're halfway through the season now and you're still giving what's a verbal assent to the run game, but you're not feeding the like your, your offensive game doesn't go through the run and you have two running backs who can do that. And I would say that was a big part of beating the Raven, the Lions was the way you mixed up and you used your running backs and even creating some deception for the passing game actually. But anyways, yeah, I'll stop my intro rant and give you space.
[00:04:44] Speaker A: I. So yeah, it's. It, it's one of these things. It's a frustrating season because it's not that, Excuse me, dealing with some post nasal drip here.
It's not that.
[00:05:01] Speaker B: Sound like a coffee drink.
[00:05:04] Speaker A: It really what some of that single origin post nasal drip.
[00:05:12] Speaker B: Sorry, that my coffee, as I said. But the way you phrase that was like, okay, go for it.
[00:05:23] Speaker A: It's not, it's not that this team is just bad and, and that that would be discouraging. Like, like I'm grateful for the Wolfs and for the Wolf's insistence that this team be. Always be competitive. I wouldn't want to cheer for a team that tanks. I think that's the coward's way out.
And also those teams just like Miami, New York jets, you know, Cleveland, all of those teams just never do good. There's maybe a handful of teams that have actually worked out.
The Bears.
The Bears distraction though.
What I was saying is like, like it's frustrating because all of these games seem very gettable. Like there's, there's kind of this thing of like if it.
Our losses feel so ugly and we're like, oh, that was the worst this or the worst that. Like Jefferson's worst game, Brian O' Neill's worst game. OConnell's worst to two worst games.
And it's like, if they would. Whenever.
Like, there's. There's this thought I've had that it's like, man, I just. I just wish I wouldn't mind losing. If I could just see my team just, like, playing their hearts out would probably still mind losing, but. But, like, it wouldn't feel so bad.
[00:06:43] Speaker B: It would be hard. It wouldn't feel gross.
[00:06:44] Speaker A: But the thing.
Yeah, exactly. The thing is that when they do, they win. When they do play their hearts out, they win.
And that's the frustrating thing about this team is, like, the Eagles game was gettable. The Steelers game was very gettable. And they played terribly in the Steelers game. They didn't play super well in the Eagles game either. And they still would have had, like, a chance to win that game at several.
The. They had the Baltimore Ravens.
What was it, like, 10, three for, like, the first half? Like.
[00:07:19] Speaker B: Yeah, like, they were.
[00:07:20] Speaker A: They were playing well against the Ravens, and then it kind of all just started falling apart and they had eight false starts. I think it, you know, I'm sure, throws the offensive rhythm off.
[00:07:31] Speaker B: So I think the end of the first half, if Kevin O' Connell runs the ball, instead of having JJ McCarthy do three consecutive passes, you had control of the clock. If Kevin o' Connell runs the ball, keeps control of the clock, I think they would have picked up a first down just with how Baltimore was not stopping the run. They. They were not doing well against the run. They batted down a number of passes. So on one hand, they're like, the completion percentage was awful for McCarthy.
[00:07:59] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:08:00] Speaker B: But if. If he controls the end of the half and they. Because, you know, you give Lamar Jackson back the ball, he's going to go score. And sure enough, they did. Right. And you make. You. You just. That alone brings the end of the game a lot closer. I can't remember. I don't think they got a touchdown out of it. But you, like, not only the game of momentum, but you control it, and you. You actually likely maybe get a field goal of your own, if not a touchdown of your own, because you get the first down, you keep the. You keep the ball rolling. You had two. Two timeouts in your pocket, talking to Kevin o'. Connell. Zoe, you. Yeah, yeah, sorry, I just. Yeah, I'm just riffing off of the idea this was a Vikings win to be had. They lost it themselves. I mean, I. I want to give credit.
The Ravens, I think, could be one of the coolest stories of the year because I do think they will come back and win the division if Lamar is healthy. Their defense looks better, vision is terrible.
Yeah, their division is bad. I don't think they'll go deep in the playoffs, but I don't think they're out of the playoffs. I think they'll make it. And they played well. Lamar played very well.
But the Vikings lost this game.
[00:09:23] Speaker A: Oh, for sure.
And, and like, I think, like, that I don't, I don't know what's going on with Kevin o'. Connell. Like, like the thing that's confusing as a fan is like a third, fourth hand observer is that like, people who know football and follow the team intently don't even know like, what's going on, why.
There's a lot of speculation about like, that Kevin o' Connell is like, just stubborn, which doesn't, doesn't really fit with his personality. Like he, he presents as someone who's approachable and willing to adjust into whatever.
But I mean, this is the fourth year now of him, clearly. I mean he historically hasn't had a great running game. This year he has a great running game and he's still refusing to, to use it. I think like the, what's the term for like, when, like, best case scenario to like strong man or not strongman. But like, yeah, give the benefit of the doubt to Kevin o'.
[00:10:36] Speaker B: Connell.
[00:10:37] Speaker A: I think I, I heard someone say like, that if this is his process, if this is the process that he wants his team to, to do and he wants McCarthy to do, there's a certain degree to which you just have to keep doing the process and at some point it'll start clicking and you got to be committed to that.
And so like, there's, there's this question, I imagine as a leader of a team who's strategizing in offense, it's like, at what point do you abandon the process and adjust because they're giving you a run game? And at one point do you stay committed because this is who you want the offense to be. And it might not pay off in this game, but it'll pay off like three and four fold, you know, down the line.
I would guess at like, I would guess part of what's throwing it off is that McCarthy missed five weeks or whatever. It was like this was all supposed to be happening.
[00:11:42] Speaker B: Yeah, go for it. Yeah. No, I just to jump in, interrupt your thought a little bit. Like, I, I agree with you. I.
When Andy, when the Chiefs aren't doing well, Andy Reid sticks to his style as well.
We like that is common of even elite head coaches that have won Super Bowls. Kyle Shanahan is the same thing. He, he's probably one of the, one of the classic and I guess he hasn't won a Super bowl yet, but like he sticks to his game and it works out amazing sometimes. And then other times people are like thinking the Niners have reached their ceiling. I. But I think the thing that confuses me is this was McCarthy's fourth game and he had 42 attempts at passing the ball. In fact, if I remember correctly, at mid-20s, he was still at a 60, like at 25, 26 attempts. On the game against the Ravens, he had a completion percentage of upper 50s, if not 60. I don't remember right off hand.
It was, it was the fifth game last year before Darnold had more than 30 attempts in a game. It was all the way until week 15 before Darnold hit 40 attempts in a game and he only did it three times.
And Darnold has a better arm like Darnold. That is what was scouted about Darnold is he's a good pastor of the football.
Why are you giving your young 22 year old QB 42 attempts in his fourth NFL game? Like, that's the thing that kind of bothered me. Like, why was your game plan not to have him at about 28 to 32 attempts somewhere in there?
[00:13:34] Speaker A: Yeah, I don't know.
[00:13:36] Speaker B: Like, my point being that even with oconnell's style of offense, it's last year. That's not exaggerating it. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:13:46] Speaker A: I mean, yeah, there was, there was also. There's also the dynamic of like we were.
I don't necessarily think this is translating perfectly, but like last year we were playing from ahead a lot.
And so you tend, you tend to throw the ball more when you're playing from behind, which again, this team's not really currently built to play from behind. You, like, you have to maintain that 103 lead and so that it doesn't work doesn't translate perfectly well because, you know, we had 103 lead, I think going into. Oh no, we had a 103 lead going into the half. And then we had just some really dumb mistakes that led to. It was 102 field goals within the last two minutes.
[00:14:42] Speaker B: Yeah, well, and that's, that's what I was saying. Oh, it's 10 9. That's right.
[00:14:46] Speaker A: I forgot about that going into the half.
[00:14:48] Speaker B: Yeah, it was 10, 103 was one of the interceptions within the last two minutes of the half.
I can't remember But I remember thinking it was 10:3 and they had control of the clock but instead they were passing it and gave it back to Lamar Jackson a couple times. They were able to get a couple field goals kind of, kind of to pick that up though.
I know, I know the defense gave up 27 points but I thought the def. Like I was encouraged.
The one encouraging piece is first of all McCarthy had his first 200 plus yard game which we knew could be in there, especially if you're throwing it 42 times.
But the defense played really well and it, it's somewhat similar to, to the Atlanta game a little bit. It's like. Well, they stopped Atlanta quite a bit. It took Atlanta a while before they could get touchdowns across.
At the same time I thought it was bet like the defensive line was a lot stronger. Again I actually have very little complaint about how the defense played just because they got zero help from the offense in terms of controlling possession and controlling time of time of play. Then the, the amount of snaps the defensive unit played on Sunday.
You're. You're going to give up points if, if you force your defense to play that many amount of snaps. And I thought those two field goals at the end of the first half, the fact that they kept them to field goals like Baltimore could have exploded with. If you, if you imagine they had gotten those two touchdowns now I think, I think they were pushed for time on the final one if I remember correctly.
But the, you know, if they would have come out and it was 1710 out of the half, that would have been really embarrassing.
[00:16:57] Speaker A: This is really confusing this. Sorry I got distracted reading about this interception. I wasn't watching the game at this point.
The, that interception in the second quarter.
This is a total distraction. I can let this go. I'm just like hyper fixated.
[00:17:22] Speaker B: That's the one where it was.
[00:17:24] Speaker A: He was deep.
[00:17:25] Speaker B: Jefferson fell down.
[00:17:26] Speaker A: Right. Oh, maybe it was deep. It was a third and one play by play. It was deep.
Third and six deep right intended for Justin Jefferson. Intercepted by starks at Baltimore 22.
It was third and 124 return for 20.
You might be thinking of a different interception.
[00:17:49] Speaker B: No, the one where he felt went deep to. I want to look that up.
[00:17:53] Speaker A: I think there were two, two that. Two interceptions that went deep.
Yeah, you're thinking, you're thinking of, you're thinking of. To start the second half, his first interception, J. McCarthy passed a bright intended for Justin Jefferson. Intercepted by starks at Baltimore 22. Returns it for 24 downs for 24 yards.
The replay official Reviewed the runner was not down by contact ruling. And the play was reversed. Reversed. Jim McCarthy passed deep right intended for Justin Jefferson. Intercepted by at Baltimore.
Oh, I'm still confused by the wording of this, but I think it was reversed and it, you know, and he was down.
This is very confusing wording. I think what they're saying is the replay showed that he was downed by Jefferson at the point of interception.
This was the first interception and then the second interception to open the second half.
It was deep to Jefferson at third and one.
Intercepted at the second yard line.
Ran back for 27 yards.
Okay, so that was, that was the one before we were recording. I think that the one I was reading about was the one I was. I was.
Both of these interceptions were being passed around Twitter.
The first one, people, both of them were complaining about Jefferson's effort.
The first one he had downed him and I think he was pretty sure he had down him. So he didn't run. The second one, we don't know what happened. He tripped and then just didn't.
[00:19:35] Speaker B: He tripped and then he basically stood there in the middle of it. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:19:42] Speaker A: And it's.
[00:19:44] Speaker B: So I get, I guess, like my, my takeaway of, of the game is I'm not that critical of McCarthy and that's where all the focus is going to be. The focus is, is going to be on like, oh, McCarthy's not that good, by the way. I, I should have gotten this ready to show YouTube, but have you looked at.
This is like us clinging to, oh, he's a potential Josh Allen.
I'm not trying to say he's going to be anybody in particular, but go look at people's. Drake May has a pretty. Once you get to the fourth and fifth starts of Drake May's career, he starts looking really good. And so who knows what Drake May is going to turn into.
[00:20:28] Speaker A: But we've talked Drake, man, is incredible.
Yeah.
[00:20:32] Speaker B: About Peyton Manning in his horrible first year. We like, Patrick Mahomes wasn't super stellar in his first four or five starts, but go look at Josh Allen's first four starts.
He had two touchdowns to five interceptions.
McCarthy has like seven more passing yards than Josh Allen did. The completion percentage was almost exactly the same.
They were both two and two after four starts. Like, I'm, I'm not that we've been saying this whole time it's going to be a roller coaster ride with McCarthy. We still want to see him play. We want to see him get developed. We believe o' Connell can develop him.
I still want Even after all this bashing and criticism, I still want Kevin o' Connell to be the head coach of the Vikings.
I believe he. In fact, part of why I'm so critical of him is because I do believe he's entering the next tier. On one hand, you could say, well, he hasn't won a playoff game yet. I think that's a fair criticism. But when you look at what he does with teams in the regular season, his winning percentage, what he's been able to maximize out of his players.
Kevin o' Connell is an elite head coach.
What elite means, you know, top 5 of active head coaches. I would put him there, and therefore, I want, like, I'm going to hold him under a microscope that I kind of shrug at somebody, like, who are. Well, even Todd Bowles, perhaps. Like.
And obviously Todd Bowles. I would maybe hold him, you know, looking at Tampa Bay's defense, be more critical of that or something, because he's a defensive head coach. But what's the guy in Jacksonville, the new guy there, or.
[00:22:21] Speaker A: Oh, Liam Cohen.
[00:22:22] Speaker B: Mike Liam Cohen. Like, I'm. I'm not holding guys like that under the same microscope that I would hold Kevin o'. Connell. You're. You're. You're now in your fourth year.
You've. You've proven that you can maximize players.
[00:22:37] Speaker A: You won Coach of the Year.
[00:22:39] Speaker B: Coach of the Year. Yeah. Now, like, put together two good weeks here. Like, we're struggling to get two good weeks back to back where they're prepared, they're disciplined, they're ready to go. Like, even Kevin o' Connell's trick play that they schemed up for that third and long, if it wasn't for the fact that they had just shot themselves in the foot with a false start, they would have got the first down. Like, that was it. That was a wonderful play and really reminiscent. Like, Ben Johnson gets known for all his tricks he plays and everything.
Kevin OConnell is brilliant. Kevin OConnell can work things up, but they're struggling. Like, why. Why are they so undisciplined? Mid, middle. Like, we're in November now. Playoff football has essentially begun, and you're not going to make it when you're so undisciplined. Some of that has to do with McCarthy's cadence and which is quarterback development, all of that. I think, going back to what I.
The gist of what I was saying in this rant is that I'm not here calling for Kevin o' Connell's job. I think that's ridiculous. I'm not here calling McCarthy a bust. I was just disappointed by, you know, Miles Price fumbling the ball twice.
Jefferson's effort seemed. Seem like he was half there. He was. He was. It looked like he had just had his first child and had missed a couple of practices this week.
[00:24:07] Speaker A: Like, that's.
[00:24:08] Speaker B: That's kind of how Jefferson looked on the field. And then Kevin o' Connell is like, why didn't you control the. You had control, and it felt like you gave it away because of certain plays that you called.
Those are the things that disappoint me, and I think it's okay to criticize him a little bit, but I'm also still optimistic about the player development of McCarthy himself, and I. I think the focus should be more on what happened to that Ferrari. Not so much. Oh, you.
[00:24:42] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:24:43] Speaker B: The Vikings made a mistake.
As Colin Coward continued to try to prove.
[00:24:55] Speaker A: I think. I think. I think I'm right with you. I think it. I think there is a lot of criticism to be had.
I think.
I think we're bordering on the level of, like, if. If things continue like this, like, there's a part of me that's like, I won't even believe they could come out and smack the Bears. And now it's like, last year, every win, it was like, oh, wow. I. You know, they really did it. And it was like this big. Building belief and momentum. This year, it's so back and forth. It's like, okay, well, yeah, okay, now you've won. You won against the Lions. Show me against the Ravens while you fell apart. You totally fell so well. Yeah, smack the Bears. But then what are you gonna do against the Packers? Like.
[00:25:42] Speaker B: Can you put. Yeah. Two good weeks together?
[00:25:45] Speaker A: Can you put a couple good weeks together?
And so there's a. It's bordering on, like, a loss of momentum as a fan, where it's, like, gonna be no longer. I think part of the difference between now and. Before, under. Under Kirk Cousins, under Mike Zimmer, there was just this underlying belief of, like, these guys aren't ever. These guys are never gonna go anywhere. Like.
Like, it was just this. This feeling of, like, this is our ceiling.
[00:26:20] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:26:21] Speaker A: Whereas I think. I think it's that it factor as, like, cliche and cheesy and maybe even unfounded as a concept. It is. There is a certain amount of it factor to McCarthy, to Jefferson, to O'. Connell.
And so it feels like under this leadership of the team, it feels like, wow, like, we could really build something. We could really go somewhere. And so. And so there's optimism for me, that wasn't there. Even during, like, some really good Viking seasons under Kirk Cousins or under.
[00:26:57] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:26:59] Speaker A: Mike Zimmer, it feels. It feels like, okay, like, the purpose of me, you know, staying plugged into this team is because we're building to something in the future. Well, the closer the future arrives and the more they stutter and splurt and like it. You know, it. The more it sounds like an old Honda Civic and not a Ferrari, the.
The more it dampens that feeling of momentum as a fan, which is frustrating to feel and to watch because it's like, this is supposed to be our era.
But so all of that to say that it's like, it is frustrating, and I think it is okay to. To be critical. And I think I do want answers. Like, I think I do want accountability from o'. Connell. Like, this part of me that's like, is he one of those? Just, like, I'm gonna play it nice, but inside I just have, like, the world's biggest ego.
Those types of people are frustrating to believe in because they're like bait and switching you where it's like, it's about the team and it's about the momentum and it's about the fans, but actually, it's about me because I want to prove to everyone how great of a coach I am.
I don't. I don't think I know nothing. I'm a guy sitting out of state, you know?
So, like, I have no idea. Like, I don't think. I don't think it would be right of me to try to say that. That is. I think there's other things going on, which includes development, which is kind of the thing I'm building to. Like, with McCarthy, with O', Connell, even with Kwesi, there's, like. I think of, like, Howie, like, how he left the Eagles organization and came back and wasn't loved by people and now is, like, considered the greatest GM in the NFL. And he is like, somehow, he.
[00:28:52] Speaker B: They.
[00:28:52] Speaker A: The Eagles just consistently get guys.
I'm not saying Kwesi's Howie, but I am saying that if. If you want to do anything great, and maybe I'll moralize this into a.
Into a broader life.
Moral.
Like, if you want anything great in life, it's gonna take time, and it's gonna take development, and you can't just, like, stop and start. Stop and start. And the amount of money that is in the NFL causes teams, and. And I don't. I don't know that the money is so much a motivation for the fans. But, like, causes teams and owners to just, like, churn through people because it's a. It's a what? It's a. It's a.
It's. It's a demanding league. There's a phrase that they use for it, but it's like, you know, there's too much money. There's too much at stake.
[00:29:52] Speaker B: Competitive industry.
[00:29:54] Speaker A: Yeah, but.
But like, to just give up on, like, I think. I think about this with New York Giants and Dable. They probably should have fired Dable a year ago if they were gonna fire him. But now, now they have discovered something in Jackson Dart, and now they've decided that they're gonna fire Dable and.
And Joe, but they've decided to keep Joe, shoot, whatever his name is, who's objectively a terrible gm. He, like, gave up on Saquon Barkley. He gave tons of money to Daniel Jones, and then he let Daniel Jones go. So it's like these teams that just churn through people don't go anywhere. It does take development, and it does take patience.
And so, again, I feel like I've gone on this rant a couple of times on this podcast, and so maybe it's getting old, but.
But like, with. With McCarthy, with O', Connell, even with Kwesi, there's a part of me that's just like. Like.
[00:31:03] Speaker B: You know, I don't.
[00:31:04] Speaker A: I don't know how many. How many years is too short. I. I think their plan was always, like, three to four. They always had, like, a three to four year plan is what was said about it.
And so there's like, you got to at least see them through. Like, the.
The Gotta at least see what McCarthy has.
[00:31:26] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:31:28] Speaker A: It's like, do I want to get to. Like, there's even a part of me, like, is he like Josh Allen? Well, Josh Allen hasn't even gone to a Super Bowl. Like, do we want Josh Allen?
I don't. I don't know. I. I think I want Josh Allen, but I also. More than I want Josh Allen. Like, I would take. I would take Jalen Hurts over Josh Allen. Jalen Hurts has gone to two Super Bowls.
[00:31:53] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:31:53] Speaker A: That's a lot more fun to me.
Even though it would be. I mean, if I'm choosing between do I want Jalen Hurts or do I want Josh Allen? I'm gonna choose Jalen Hurts. But.
But if we're choosing. If we're choosing between, like, Kirk Cousins and Josh Allen, of course I'm gonna take the Josh Allen.
[00:32:13] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:32:14] Speaker A: Anyways.
[00:32:15] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:32:15] Speaker A: Kind of rant. Yeah.
[00:32:16] Speaker B: No, that, that's, that's all good reminder. I think I'm, I'm. I'm of the last year.
We had such a good year in terms of Vikings fans and Vikings football and so forth. And it genuinely looked like, I don't know that I was ever so deceived about this time last year the Viking. Well, this time last year the Vikings were shaking a little bit and it was actually their run after that where they put 40 up on the, on the Falcons where they go in and have that.
Darnold has that Mahomesian like game against the Seahawks where he puts it the team on his back. And then against the packers like they had these and then they, in the middle of that they blew out the Bears. Like that looked like a team that could go deep in the playoffs. We had not seen that with Kevin o' Connell before.
And then they lay eggs. Yeah. Right in the, you know, even the end of the season.
And so I genuinely have my antennas up a little bit more and I think what this is for me is a little bit of a lesson. I, I overestimated what you could do with a rookie qb. I probably should have had a more realistic lens on that.
[00:33:35] Speaker A: J. Stroud and Jaden Daniels threw us off.
[00:33:38] Speaker B: Yeah. But even like CJ Stroud just looking at his rookie like it's possible the vikings end up 10, 7. I.
That's going to be.
[00:33:48] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:33:49] Speaker B: Hard. It's going to be difficult.
[00:33:50] Speaker A: Yeah. I mean we could still go on a run.
There's a lot of season left.
[00:33:55] Speaker B: And even Jaden Daniels like he, he didn't look that phenomenal in his first half a dozen games or so. It was, yeah, it was mid season that he started turning it on and so like there's, I guess my point being I don't think McCarthy's that behind in development, especially for a 22 year old.
The difference is we had such high expectations. The Vikings are a better team prepared than the Washington Commanders were. The Houston Texans were. And so we had like yes, again come back to. I think it was Kurt Warner who said JJ McCarthy is under the most pressure of any QB in the league this year.
I, I think that's probably true. And JJ heading into the season, Kurt Warner said McCarthy was I see under the most pressure.
So here, let me, let me. We can transition here into our, our picks then. But let me share something with you for our YouTube or I think most of our audiences YouTube, we've got like two listeners on podcast.
[00:35:13] Speaker A: I would, I would be very interested to know who's who's this? Who's listening to us?
[00:35:17] Speaker B: Who's listening?
[00:35:19] Speaker A: Are they the same people or are they new people every time?
[00:35:23] Speaker B: So J.J. mcCarthy at 22 years old through his first four starts compared to Josh Allen at 22 years old through his first 4 starts. Starts. Their completion percentage McCarthy was. Is 54% Allen, 55%. McCarthy has actually, it's like 18 more passing yards than Allen did.
McCarthy has five touchdowns to six interceptions. Allen had two touchdowns to five interceptions. They both had roughly 110 rushing yards.
Allen had three touchdowns to one fumble. McCarthy has two touchdowns to one fumble. The McCarthy's passer rating is 65.8, giving up taking 15 sacks.
And Allen's passing rate was 61% taking 16 sacks.
[00:36:12] Speaker A: You could, you could argue J.J. mcCarthy's playing better.
Yeah, I mean, I mean five touchdowns, one less interception, better pass rating.
[00:36:23] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:36:24] Speaker A: And the point, the point isn't to try to make the argument that J.J. mcCarthy will be Josh Allen. The point is that if, if you would cut, if you would have cut Josh Allen off for the same reasons that you want exactly. J.J. mcCarthy off, you would never have found Josh Allen.
I mean, maybe he had better specs or something. I don't know.
[00:36:48] Speaker B: It is still too early to, to draw a conclusion on McCarthy and I want to see how does, how does Kevin O' Connell bounce back, but also how does McCarthy bounce back? How, you know, what is his.
We have so far, McCarthy has yet to take two losses in a row. Yeah, that might be part of the if factor. I'm not like you're going to take. Josh Allen has just taken two losses in a row. Like, obviously you're going to have great QBs.
Mahomes started with two losses in a row. You're going to have great QBs lose.
And I think what sets Elite apart from just average is when those losses you learn and you grow from and you come out better in spite of having lost. And hopefully that happens.
This is going to be a season of that. And so I don't know if our playoff hopes for them are going to come to fruition, but we are committed to seeing the development.
[00:37:52] Speaker A: Yeah, I came into the season with, with the sort of probably false hope that McCarthy would be like Jaden Daniels esque, CJ Stroud esque. I did not come into the season expecting him to get injured in the middle of his second game.
And so it's, it's hard to say who, who knows what would have happened if he would have played the full season.
But like, I Think you're probably right. Like we probably should have just had better expectations. But like there's.
There's still a lot of season left.
I don't think it's realistic to expect. Like I. My preseason predictions have them winning out.
[00:38:39] Speaker B: The.
[00:38:40] Speaker A: The Seahawks are a lot better than I thought that they were.
But this list is not what people thought it was at the beginning of the season.
[00:38:50] Speaker B: It's.
[00:38:50] Speaker A: It's Bears, Packers, Seahawks, commanders, Cowboys, Giants, Lions, Packers. We've beaten the Lions. We'll probably draw with the Packers.
[00:39:01] Speaker B: Could we sweep the Lions like we have? Although our. Our home versus Road record. The Vikings home versus Road record isn't boating well for that because they're. They're one in three at home. Yeah. And they do bring to.
[00:39:15] Speaker A: On the road.
[00:39:16] Speaker B: Yeah.
So I guess we'll see how. How it turns out. But yeah, it's like you. You go out and you play great against the Lions.
Even going back to that Phillies game, they could have won that game.
I keep saying Phillies, Eagles, the Eagles game.
And. But, but then you lose to some other teams that. Which I don't know. Maybe that's not even true. Have they lost to teams they should have beaten?
Like the Steelers are a little bit better than we thought. Maybe they would be a little bit better. I don't.
[00:39:52] Speaker A: The Falcons. I don't know what's going on with the Falcons there. For a while they were playing really well.
[00:39:57] Speaker B: I still think they have one of the best pass rushes. They just don't have.
They can't put consist. They're. They're another team that can't put consistent two good weeks of offense together.
[00:40:08] Speaker A: Yeah. The, The NFL is just weird this year. Like people losing to odd teams and so was it. Was it Mark Schler that was talking about like he.
It's like the, The.
The.
The contract between the union and the league and like the way that the practices are set up, he thinks is. Is contributing to poorer play or less consistent play, which is like, I don't know, interesting. I don't. I'm not necessarily here to advocate that football players should go back to like grueling, inhumane levels of practice. Like.
[00:40:50] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:40:50] Speaker A: They talk about in the 70s doing like four practices a day and like two of them or three of them were padded, you know?
[00:40:58] Speaker B: Yeah. And I don't know that. I mean this. Yeah, it is. I mean in some ways it almost feels like a more level playing field perhaps because.
[00:41:08] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:41:09] Speaker B: I mean, I don't. We were just talking ahead of recording that. I'm. I don't really see a team.
And this is how the Eagles looked about last year as well. And they're. They're stacking together a series of victories. So maybe, maybe we need to look at them as the team to beat because they are the super bowl champions.
But they.
That was an ugly game Monday night. Like that wasn't impressive. If there's any team that looks solid, it's the Seahawks. Surprisingly like they have a pretty good defense.
And maybe the Patriots. Like the Patriots.
We've like for most of the season it's kind of like who have they really beat? Well, now they've beat the Bills and they've beat the Buccaneers. Like they're beating these teams that we expected to be kind of better than them. And now they're. They're showing they're better than them. I do think the Eagles are going to be in the mix at the end. The Lions are probably going to be in the mix, but you have the Eagles playing these ugly games the line. The Lions losing to the Vikings and then turning around and putting out 40 points and maybe Dan Campbell's going to be better calling plays. But they put out 40 points before earlier this year.
[00:42:22] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:42:23] Speaker B: So I don't think it's just a.
Yeah, it's just kind of a weird, weird year. We. On the week last week we both tied went nine and five. So you remain four games ahead of me. Need you to have a really bad week which I'm not sure that we have that because I think we're pretty much in lockstep. Except I'm picking the Bills over the Buccaneers.
[00:42:51] Speaker A: Yeah. I didn't know what to who to pick.
[00:42:56] Speaker B: We both think that the lot. The Vikings will beat the Bears at home. I think, I think this will be a. A fun game. A. A get right game of sorts. Although the question is going to be then can you stack it again for a second week but get the first McCarthy US Bank Stadium win.
I think they can do that against the Bears. The. The Bears have been winning. Yeah.
But they're.
I don't know. They. They don't look.
Maybe, maybe I'm being blinded by bias. I just, I. They've had a lot of ugly wins. They're not turning it into dominant play.
[00:43:39] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:43:40] Speaker B: And I think the.
The Vikings will be able to get them.
Otherwise we are totally in lockstep. That is. I didn't even realize just one game. That is our only.
So hopefully the. Hopefully the Bills win and I can gain a game on you.
[00:43:56] Speaker A: The Seahawks could easily win the Raiders. Raiders I could see. I could see the Raiders beating the Cowboys.
[00:44:07] Speaker B: You think so?
[00:44:09] Speaker A: It's just one of those games. Like, those are two teams that are like.
Like the Cowboys should. Should beat them, but they're also.
The Cowboys are the type of team this year that would lose to the Raiders.
[00:44:23] Speaker B: Yeah. Except the Cowboys have been scoring high all the time. And I don't. I don't think the Raiders have an office to keep up with that.
Yeah, but. But you're right. Yeah. It can turn out. I. I could see the Lions beating the Eagles. It'll be hard being in.
[00:44:39] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:44:40] Speaker B: Philly, but that's a game I've been looking forward to for a long time, is just to see what do the Lions and Eagles do. And now, you know, I especially wanted to see that Eagles defense against the Lions offensive line.
And I don't know that the Lions have the same offensive line they did a year ago. And I don't know that the Eagles defensive line is quite the same as it was a year ago. So maybe it's not quite the game that I thought it would be, but it'll be interesting.
So. Yeah, we will see.
[00:45:11] Speaker A: We'll.
[00:45:11] Speaker B: We'll have more to rant and rave about either. Either way, like, I feel you and I as a unit actually stand in a very comfortable spot. We can always come in to our shows and be like, we told you so. Yeah, don't give up on McCarthy or we told you so. This is gonna be a roller coaster ride. Yeah, maybe we're playing a year.
Yeah, maybe it's kind of.
It's kind of doesn't necessarily make for, like, when it comes to YouTube and content, it's better to have kind of these dramatic shifts of narrative and. And like, be. Be calling, oh, it's a bus.
[00:46:00] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:46:01] Speaker B: So I guess it's not very good in that regard. But anyways, we will talk to you all in a week and we'll see where things are after that. Maybe. Maybe the Vikings will have lost and we'll come on and say, you know what?
They are the worst team in the NFL. I don't know. We'll see.
