Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Foreign hello and welcome back to the Skullcast, where my brother Christopher and I, my name is Asher Whitmer. We enjoy rehashing and talking about football, particularly Vikings football.
And if you missed it last week, we came in almost ready to give up on the sport of football. With as bad of a game as the Vikings had played against the Atlanta Falcons, now we're, we're, our emotions have swung the exact opposite direction. The Vikings just had their, their greatest shelling of a team in the Kevin O' Connell era. 48:10 against the Cincinnati Bengals. And I believe they are either tied for second or third in point differential within the whole league. So one, one game can do a lot for you, but it was, it was a fun game and we're going to rehash that in this episode. In our next episode, we'll, we'll review the league as a whole. If you missed it, you can go back in our last episode where we picked the results for week three. And you can see, see kind of the ways we were leaning and, and what our thought process was in that. But Christopher, what, what are some of your, yeah, what do we want to dive into? Pick apart this Vikings game. So if you're watching this, you're likely a Vikings fan. You're probably a fan of somebody in the NFC north if you're not a Vikings fan. And so you're probably familiar with what's been happening with JJ McCarthy and how he missed this game due to a high ankle sprain and he's going to be out for a few weeks. So Carson Wentz comes in and takes over back. He manages the game perfectly and the Vikings offense explodes as well as a, a generational historic effort or what do you call performance from the defense, particularly cornerback Isaiah Rogers, which the Vikings picked up. He had been with the Eagles last year. So, Christopher, what are kind of your takeaways or where, where should we jump in first as we reflect on the Vikings Bengals game this past Sunday?
[00:02:23] Speaker B: Yeah, I, I would like to defend myself a little bit. Last week. I don't, I don't know that I was ready to give up on the sport of football.
I, I, I think by the time we recorded, I had come around to some optimism.
[00:02:38] Speaker A: I was being sarcastic.
[00:02:40] Speaker B: Yeah, no, I, I just wanted to lay, to lay it all out there because it'll support my feelings for this week.
Yeah, because, because I think I had what I hadn't expected, like, coming into this game. I was like, all right, so either, I mean, obviously I knew that there could be some, like, Kind of middle ground. But it was kind of like either Wentz is going to ball out and, and we're going to want him to play or the team is going to want him to play through the rest of the season or he's going to do terrible and we're going to lose games and the season will be lost, but we'll at least be able to develop JJ McCarthy.
And it felt like an impossible situation. What I hadn't prepared for is the opportunity for the team to ball out, for the defense to step up, and for Wentz to be perfectly mediocre so that we get to the place where we could. There's a very real scenario where we get to the bye week five and one, and Wentz has played mediocre and the team has carried him. And by mediocre, it's not even really an insult. He's a backup. So like backups kind of the best that you hope. Like, you know, a couple years ago it was Cowboys backup went like 5 and oh or something. Oh yeah, the Cowboys backup went like 5 and oh or something. But there was no, there was no world in which he was going to replace Dak Prescott. So in some ways I find we can get into some of the details of why, you know, I think this game was so much different than Atlanta.
But I find myself very encouraged because I think that there is a world in which we get to the bye week. Maybe Wentz plays one more game against the Eagles and then J.J. mcCarthy comes back with. With a healthier ankle. I don't know that you can fully recover from a high ankle sprain without a full off season, but a healthier ankle and potentially has been able to work through some of the mental things that he was dealing with. Obviously he needs reps. And so there's. There's a part of me that's like if he, if he can step back and realize, okay, I wasn't keeping up with the play calling. Some of the huddle issues, some of the pre snap issues, that's all mental stuff. So they, you know, we saw him standing beside Kevin o' Connell along the sidelines. My guess is just based on what other people say who know things, my guess is that he's standing there hearing the play calls and probably somehow either in his mind or like to somebody, to o', Connell, probably not to o' Connell because o' Connell's calling a game, is repeating the play call back so that he keeps that sort of mental. He can kind of get used to hearing the play calls and Spitting it out. Those are all natural things for a rookie, for a first time player to struggle with. Those are not things of like, this guy just can never do it. Like those, those are skill issues that you can work on. Those are not inherent traits or qualities that mean that he won't, that he'll be a bust or whatever. And so I, I'm, I'm very encouraged. Cause I think there's, there is a chance, a real chance in which the Vikings have a real legitimate shot at a playoff position and McCarthy can come back better and get in, you know, a half season of reps.
Yeah, because I just, There's a lot, there's a lot of fans that are like, well, if Wentz didn't play super well, he had one good drive and that was about it. And so there's. To me, it would be, it would be crazy to look at that play and be like, well, Wentz has to play the rest of the year. But I also think like, you can't, you can't. As a franchise, you can't just keep living for this year or this year. You have to have some long term development in the works.
And we spent the last 10 years just playing for the next year, the next year, the next year.
And we, we drafted this guy, we set the whole thing in place. Sorry, I've been talking a lot, but like this whole thing is, is a long term development. I'm. I'm out.
[00:06:48] Speaker A: Yeah, that's the thing that, that I, that I keep coming back to is we like, first of all, hold up. Wentz did not perform like dominatingly. He did very well. He. I think he had a 2.55 seconds per throw or two throw.
And compared to McCarthy was averaging over two games, 3.14. But that, that's not a shocker. That should not be a shocker. A young qb.
The.
So I'll give a preliminary and then I'll kind of recap some things dovetailing off of what you brought out. My preliminary is that we, we need to be very careful. Like when just because Wentz per. May perform well and the team blows people out and so forth, or wins games, doesn't inherently mean we need Wentz to go win a Super bowl. Because I don't have the confidence that Wentz actually would win a Super Bowl. We saw in week one that McCarthy has that capacity. There's a lot of development that needs to happen in order to be able to adjust for things. But we're setting McCarthy's development back. If we hand the rest of the season over to Wentz in hopes that they get to the super bowl this year. And I would rather play the long game of the potential for multiple super bowl runs with McCarthy than like grasping at straws again, hoping that Wentz can take a steep obviously as the next few weeks unfold that'll adjust things. But what I'd like to step back and recap is there could not be I don't know if I have ever seen especially for the Vikings, but even in a sense for any NFL team in the last couple of years, a drast such a drastically different scenario between the Falcons game and the Bengals game. Like there are so many variables that we have got to be honest about before we just start drawing a bunch of conclusions about this. I I sat there watching the Falcons game and rather stunned like man did I did I majorly miss under did I underestimate the Falcons defense? Well, the Falcons just got shut out 30 to nothing to the Panthers and so was that a trap game? Was that a like I don't know what was going on but when you when you look at and I I don't personally watch the all 22 but I've seen the different analysts QB experts posting about the all 22. The O line in that Falcons game was absolutely mush. It was the worst O line ever. And so I don't think Wentz would have handled the Falcons game that much better than the way McCarthy handled it. Yes, McCarthy is a little slow. Yes, McCarthy needs the reps to know what when my O line is falling apart, what do I do and where do I need to go? So that's probably the the degree in which Wentz brings some expertise and some instincts that are that are equipped to the speed of the NFL and everything. But I don't look at that and think man, that makes Wentz our guy to go get a Super Bowl. Rather I think Wentz is going to do a fantastic job piloting this piloting this ship until McCarthy comes back. But I want McCarthy to get back in then and get the reps even if that means we're definitely not going to the super bowl this year. Like that was not my expectation anyways and I want to see how McCarthy can be developed. The we got several key players back from injuries and the O line did a phenomenally better job in the Bengals game that it it's not you can't even compare it. Like I think McCarthy I don't know if McCarthy would have put up 48 points. Obviously Winston, the offense didn't Even put up. They only put up 34 points. But the, like, maybe this game would have been 31 to 10 or something like. But I. I'm quite confident McCarthy could have piloted a blowout of the Bengals as well. And so I think as far as Vikings fandom and stuff, I just think we need to hit the brakes. When you compare both Wentz's performance and Darnold's first performance last year, it's not that much different than McCarthy's first performance. What's different is, is McCarthy's first performance against the Bears. It was three bad quarters and then he had an incredible third quarter. And it's that incredible third quarter that I'm like, we saw something in him there that you need in a qb. You need to have that. The Eagles saw it in Jalen Hurts this week and they're coming. You need to have a QB who can do that in the face of adversity. And if you're going to go deep into the playoffs. I certainly didn't have the confidence Darnold could do that. I'm not familiar enough with Wentz, kind of knowing his track record. I don't know that he can do that that necessarily. Maybe he could. But I. Yeah. All that to say I still want to see McCarthy developed, but there were so many variables to talk. Yeah. And we could talk about the O line. Derisa who comes back from injuries and Trey Hendrick Hendrickson. It slipped my mind.
Was le through the first two weeks was leading the NFL in pressures on the qb and Dara saw holds him to zero pressures throughout the whole game.
You have the defense stepping up. We saw Isaiah Rogers come alive as a cornerback, Mason as running back. That in a way that we had not seen before. Like KOC called plays. I don't know if I know enough of what happens in play calling to be able to say like, oh, he called better plays. Like, it is a lot easier when the defense is giving you good field positioning and when. When you're able to move the ball. But I just thought KOC had a better play calling.
At least the. The.
I. I made it for the second, probably third of the game. It was kind of halfway through the. The third quarter when I was able to start paying attention to it the whole time. And I. So by then they were very much blowing them out. But that seems to kind of be a consensus. Like the play calling was. For me, a question that has kind of hovered over koc's tenure is why doesn't he blow teams out? He wins all these One score games and to me it's like, well, we just saw KOC guide a ship and totally blow them out. Even if the defense hadn't scored any points, it would have been a 34 to 10 blowout of the.
[00:13:21] Speaker B: Yeah, so there.
[00:13:23] Speaker A: Now I rambled for a while.
[00:13:24] Speaker B: Yeah, we.
It's always hard to tell because it's like what, you know, with those five turnovers would have. Those drives ended in like field goals or something, you know, but.
[00:13:38] Speaker A: Oh, yeah, no, I was meaning like assuming they turned him over but weren't able to score on the place.
[00:13:44] Speaker B: I see, yeah, yeah, I see what you're saying.
I, I think, I think based on what it seems, some people have said, like, it seems like Kevin o' Connell may have stripped down the play calling a little bit so that it's not as complex. Kevin o' Connell likes these really complicated plays that take a while to develop. So you have Jefferson running these routes because he's a great route runner and you know, Hawkinson and Naylor and whatever.
And, and so it was kind of a double whammy for J.J. mcCarthy because in order to get it to like Jefferson or whatnot, he needed to hold.
[00:14:22] Speaker A: Onto the ball longer.
[00:14:23] Speaker B: Yeah, he needed to hold onto the ball with a terrible O line.
Um, yeah. And so, yeah, it was, it was, it was a double Whammy for, for McCarthy. And, and I think there's, there's part of me that's like, I think best case scenario, Kevin o' Connell is just always trying to show his guys that he trusts them.
You know, just give them the benefit of the doubt, throw them back in there. He's, he did that with Dobbs. He gave Dobbs three games.
Um, and then he gave, you know, what, you know, he gave, he gave hall, hall the start and then hall got injured. So then Dobbs had it and then Dobbs had three games. You know, so he's always, he's always just giving people, especially the quarterbacks shots when other coaches would maybe bail. And so there's, there's like, that's important to their culture. Um, but I, that's why in some ways that this is kind of an unfortunate best case scenario. Obviously there's a big question mark because it's like we beat the Bears when they were struggling to put things together. We beat the Bengals when everything was falling apart for them. Can, like, what will we do against a, like a perfectly mid, tiered, you know, Steelers? How will we hold up against the Browns, who I think have an underrated defense? Um, yeah, we Get Addison back.
[00:15:38] Speaker A: Now.
[00:15:39] Speaker B: Donovan. Jack Jackson is getting wrist surgery, which I think will only take him out for a couple of weeks, so. But like, it's left guard.
[00:15:45] Speaker A: He's a guy.
[00:15:45] Speaker B: He's out through the guy.
[00:15:47] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:15:47] Speaker B: Is he okay? Having Derrissa back, getting Ryan Kelly back, the O line should be pretty much up to par. Honestly, some of the things I've heard is that the center, the, the backup center, Juergens, was doing an okay job filling in for Ryan Kelly. Anyways, so the O line is in really good shape now.
And, and there's like this, like, I mean, yeah, you kind of talked about this, but there's like this cascading effect that having. Durasa. Durasa. Durasa is so dynamic and dominant on the left end that the left guard can push people into him. Or like, he can, they can get help because instead of the left guard needing to help the tackle, the tackle can now help the left guard even.
[00:16:32] Speaker A: Like, so just to pause right there, since he brought Darasa up again, like, I genuinely wonder what last season would have been like with Dara Saw healthy the whole year long.
Because there's, there's footage of Dara saw pushing Hendrickson into the guy. The left guard is, is also blocking. Like, so what you said is right. They can shove guys his way, but he's like walking his guy over to help out the left guard essentially. And like, he's just a phenomenal.
[00:17:04] Speaker B: Yeah, he's, he's incredible tackle.
[00:17:07] Speaker A: Yeah, sorry. You can keep going. I just wanted to praise Darasa a little bit more there.
[00:17:10] Speaker B: No, I, I, I don't know that I had, if I had any following through comments about that. I mean, yeah, we get, we get Addison back.
Um, I mean, Naylor's playing incredibly well. We basically have two receivers. That's a good question. I don't, I mean, I've listened to most of the games. I don't remember him dropping a ball.
[00:17:33] Speaker A: I mean, he had.
[00:17:34] Speaker B: Jefferson has.
[00:17:35] Speaker A: Yeah, Jefferson has. There was, Was it the Falcons game where he had two really crucial catches? Well, he had one to set up the field goal in, in the, the Bears first game as well. The, the first half ending field goal. But he's had a couple of catches where I saw. And I'm like last year he did not catch that ball or he, he may have had hands on it, but he doesn't bring it in. And, and he's definitely, you know, hope. Hopefully that's an improvement. Um, but he has, as far as I'm aware, caught every ball thrown to him. Jefferson has not, which is rare. But even Thielen has dropped Max Brosmer through two, put it right on his chest in garbage time on Sunday and Thielen dropped both of them.
[00:18:16] Speaker B: I think it'll be super helpful to have.
[00:18:18] Speaker A: What do you. Yeah, so sorry.
[00:18:20] Speaker B: I think we're lagging again.
[00:18:21] Speaker A: Go for it.
Yeah, we are, but you go.
[00:18:26] Speaker B: I was just more about the receivers. I was just going to say I think it's super helpful. It'll be incredible to have Jefferson and Addison who are both just high end receivers and then Naylor who's an incredible third string and then Thielen will probably just end up being fresh legs. Like you have certain packages with Thielen or whatever to just give people rest. And then you have Hawkinson and Oliver as well as Aaron Jones coming back at some point who, who is great as a, as a receiving running back. And then a great running game hopefully led by Mason.
[00:19:06] Speaker A: Yeah, I sure hope that Sunday's game demonstrated Mason's capabilities and just a confidence to lead with him. The.
So on Sunday, if, if. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe there were no particularly explosive plays in the receiving game. A whole lot like the. Most of the explosive plays were. Well, most of them were defensive but Mason, Mason, Mason had some runs that were probably some of the longer stretch. He run. He runs for over 116 yards, I believe, and two running touchdowns. Whereas Jefferson never found the end zone. I think he had 75 yards or so total.
Josh Oliver did get a touchdown in the end zone. Who else? I think. Oh, Hawkinson. Hawkinson got a. So Wentz used both tight ends in the red zone to get the touchdowns. But that is kind of like it was really nice to see Wentz be able to march, march the offense down the field and score on an opening drive. We as Vikings fans, we were getting a little panicked with that not happening in the first two games. But other than that there really wasn't just a lot of explosive. It was fairly methodical, just, just making the plays like making the simple plays. Do you think should O' Connell have the, the playbook slimmed down even for McCarthy and let. Let the playbook develop as his maturity in the game develops? Like why doesn't he give McCarthy the treatment that he gave Wentz or Josh Dobbs or.
[00:20:45] Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, two, two thoughts. My, my initial thought is maybe, maybe he will after seeing those two games and after seeing whatever.
My second thought is that he may be giving.
Like Ben Johnson talked about this with Caleb Williams where in, like, training camp, it was like, we're feeding him with a fire hose. Just like, boom, boom, boom, boom. And then after a while, a little bit like throwing a baby into the water, and it's like instincts kick in and you tread water.
And so there's a part of me that's like, maybe o' Connell's just purposely giving him the plays that he will need to be good at and eventually everything will slow down. I've also. I've also heard people talk about how, like, you know, not caring for your QB can cause them. This is mostly like, not having a good O line can cause them to create bad habits. Their footwork.
[00:21:44] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:21:45] Speaker B: Becomes really sloppy. Their stances and whatnot.
And so I do think that that's more. I think it's probably somewhat play calling, but I think that's more just like, if. If you're getting pressured a ton, then you can, you know, start to have some really bad habits.
Yeah, I'm not too worried about that. I think the Vikings are really good at working on that stuff. They. They have been working on his throwing motion and his stance, and they tried to get an O line. And then, you know, those first two weeks they were injured.
[00:22:21] Speaker A: Yeah. I'm generally excited for, like, I, I was fairly borderline depressed when it comes to Vikings football after that Atlanta game. There were several things about it. One is I. I expected them, the way they came out firing against the Bengals. I expected to see that against the Falcons after the emotional comeback against the Bears. And now they're coming home to their team. I. Yeah. Or to their fans. And. And I just expected kind of that performance. And so obviously it was not that way. I think the Falcons have a stronger pass rush than what I had given them credit for.
But I also, like, after seeing this Bengals game, I, I am rejuvenated with the fact that I. I think McCarthy's fine. Is he young and needs reps 100%. And they're going to. There are going to be more losses on the schedule this year that, that McCarthy's going to look at and be like, man, I'm learning a lot here. That is how. Especially when you compare. Now, Caleb Williams had a fantastic game on Sunday, and we'll. We'll review him and some of the other teams around the league in our next episode. Up until then, when you looked at the other QBs in McCarthy's draft class or even rookie QBs this year, McCarthy's not actually that bad. He's not performing. We just have a lot of Expectations. I come in.
I forget who it was. Was it Dan Orlovsky or somebody was saying that McCarthy has. Was it Kurt Warner? McCarthy's under the most pressure of any QB this year. Just with the. The way the team is primed and ready to explode and he. He needs to develop. I think that's good to have him come into a team that is ready to perform, but it's also going to require a lot of patience from the team, from the fan base. What do you just. As we kind of wrap up. So. So all that to say I'm excited. I'm excited for the Wentz ride here. It was fun to see that he can pilot it. I'm also excited to see McCarthy come back. What. As you look out on the schedule, do you want to see McCarthy right away against the Eagles? Does that feel like a bit of a trap game for him?
And what does this schedule look like? Where do you see some wins and potential complications?
I. I think the next two games will be very telling. How do the Vikings play against, like, meet mid middle competitive teams in the sense that, like, they're going to be there, they're going to win some games. The Browns have a really good defense, I think, but then out of the buy, you've got Eagles, Chargers, Lions, Ravens, Bears, Packers, Seahawks. Like, every single one of Those could be at 500 or above by the time you come out of the.
[00:25:14] Speaker B: Oh, man.
[00:25:16] Speaker A: Not to mention the commanders. I think the commanders have a weaker defense of all of those. But yeah, like, is this thing what we've seen through three weeks, Are they going to get slaughtered through that stretch or. Or do we see a lot of hope in there?
[00:25:30] Speaker B: So I have them preseason. I had them going all the, you know, through week 13. I had them going four and three.
Um, I do think there will be a lot of losses.
Um, I have. I have them losing against the Eagles anyways. And so there's part of me that's like, well, as long as they're 5 and 1 going into that Eagles game, why not throw McCarthy in there? Because they're probably not going to win it, even with one Wentz.
But there is part of me that's like. But Wentz probably gives them the best hope to win.
[00:26:07] Speaker A: There's also the romantic side.
[00:26:09] Speaker B: That's like, man, in a revenge game for Wentz. Yeah, I mean, that, that. That would certainly be interesting.
Yeah, I, I think I would. I would probably want them to keep to debut McCarthy against the Chargers, which also has some interesting storylines. Him going up against Harbaugh his former coach because I think we would have a chance to beat the Chargers and the Lions and the Bears. I doubt we'll beat the Ravens and.
[00:26:46] Speaker A: I doubt we'll beat.
[00:26:47] Speaker B: I mean, if they keep on this trajectory, maybe we'll beat the Ravens. They might be super discouraged by then.
[00:26:53] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:26:53] Speaker B: If they get hot. If they get hot. I don't. I mean, I think they're a better team. I mean, primarily because of Jackson.
[00:26:59] Speaker A: Sure. Yeah. I think they, they have a more explosive offense. I'm not sure they have much of a defense. We'll. We'll cover that in our next episode.
[00:27:08] Speaker B: But.
[00:27:09] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah, I don't know.
[00:27:10] Speaker B: Yeah, I, it'll be interesting.
[00:27:11] Speaker A: I kind of feel like the, the Eagles games has a little bit of the vibes of that 49ers game last year. Obviously 49ers were in Week 2, but they had just gone to the super bowl. Now they had lost, but they were the, they were the, the team to beat in the nfc and the Vikings came in and I mean the Niners came into the Vikings week two and beat them. The Eagles. I have them. And just as a pitch for future episodes, we are going to make our super bowl picks in our picks episode of this week. So the episode we're going to do reviewing around the league and just as a foreshadow, I do have the Eagles in the Final four. I think they're a given, but they're, they also look a little bit like that. Like they could be got. And obviously they had a really good.
They are. It feels like the new Chiefs in the sense that the ball bounces their way, even the calls sometimes go their way. And, and they find ways to win even when it's ugly. And I think that's a sign of a team that, that has a championship mentality. But there's also enough there that's like they could be got, you know, and, and so it'd be interesting. It'll be interesting. I am assuming a loss there as well, but I also have that I assumed a loss of the 49ers last year and there's a certain aspect of it in which it feels like a similar type game come particularly because it's coming into U.S. bank Stadium. I don't feel good about the games against the Chargers. I feel increasingly less good about games against Lions. Like those make nervous. I'm more optimistic about the Ravens game. But yeah, it's going to be. For as, for as much as people felt like the Vikings had an easy schedule last year, this is a number two seed schedule here this year. They, they, if you're, if you're going to be the best, you got to beat the best. And they have a chance to prove that. Well, I think that wraps up our rehashing of the Vikings in Week three.
I'm sure there will be more that kind of leaks out in the coming episodes as well. As we look around the league, there were some exciting games, a lot of exciting endings to Week 3. The Vikings were one of the first teams to play. They'll be one of the first teams to play again this next week. Is their overseas. I think it's a. Or for me it's a 7am game. Oh, Sunday morning. But it was fun to see them blow out and then watch all these close games where people are having blocked field goals to end the game and, and stuff like that. It was, this was a fun week to be a Vikings fan. In our next episode, we will evaluate how we would feel if we were some of the other fan bases around the league. So join us for that. If you, if you're not already subscribed, go ahead and subscribe to our channel and drop a comment. Let us know what stood out to you. If you're a Vikings fan or if you're a Bengals fan, how did you you feel about that Week 3 game?
Until next time. We'll talk to you later.
All right.
